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Response as Part of an Action?


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#1 Runix

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 04:39 PM

My question is this.  The rulebook clearly states that actions are to be taken alternating between players, except for disrupts.  Well and good.  But does a response count as its own action, or as part of the action that it is responding to?  The rulebook would seem to indicate the former, while the FAQ would seem to indicate the latter (see the timing section and the sequence of action there).

So, specific example:

Operations Phase for Player A, Player A plays a Hungry Dark Young, and as its ability puts an Albino Goat-spawn into play from of his discard pile.  Player B has in hand a Stalking Hound and a Horrifying Daydreams.  He wants to put the Stalking Hound into play using its triggered response, but also wants to hit the Albino Goat-spawn with Horrifying Daydreams before Player A can have the chance to put an attachment on it that would make it immune to insanity.  If Player B puts the Stalking Hound in play, does the opportunity for action go back to Player A - because that response is itself an action - or to Player B, because the response was technically part of Player A's action?



#2 TheProfessor

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 12:33 AM

 A Response is a kind of action for this purpose. So player B can do 1 thing (either) and then Player A gets to do something, then back to B, etc.



#3 .Zephyr.

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 08:21 AM

 What? O_o

Response is a response to stuff that happened in Action window. By no means can you play another action before all responces to the first one have been resolved all all players passed.

Players alternate taking actions, i dont see why would using a response opportunity count as action, can you quote any fragment that suggests it?

 

--- FAQ on response:

Responses are played after the resolution of the action or framework game event that meets their play requirement, but ---before the next player action---is taken, or before the next game event resolves. Any number of responses can be played in response to any occurrence that allows them to trigger, with response opportunities passing back and forth between players, starting with the active player. Once both players pass a response opportunity, play proceeds --- to the next action --- or game effect.

 

Responses

Responses are not normal actions, but are effects that may be triggered by players when a specific opportunity arises within an action window. Each specific response will dictate when and under what circumstances it may be triggered.

Response “Opportunities”

When the requirements (or “play restrictions”) for playing a response are met, the response is said to have an “opportunity.” The first possible opportunity may arise with the very action that started the action window itself, but other opportunities within an action window may arise when other responses, forced responses, and/or passive abilities (executed within the same action window), are resolved. You can think of opportunities as “gates” that open up, allowing you to play specific responses during an action window. These opportunities (or “gates”) can be acted on during Step 6 and stay open until Step 7, when the action finally ends and the action window closes. After the action window is entirely resolved (Step 7), the game moves on --- to the next player action --- or framework action. Any unused response opportunities (or “open gates”) are now lost, and players holding unused responses must wait for another opportunity during a later action window.

PS Is there no way to use color/bigger font or sth to underline some fragments? Even underline made text a bit bigger and thats nowhere near as visible as underlining… i used --- but its a bit weird.



#4 TheProfessor

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 10:04 AM

 Here's the language from the rule book (page 12, Timing Rules)

Each player may take actions (by playing event cards or using character abilities) during each step of every phase except for certain intervals of play (see the turn sequence diagram for details). In particular, during the resolve story card step of the story phase, no card effects or actions may be taken until all three stories have been resolved. The active player always takes the first action in any phase.

Actions are taken one at a time. After a player has taken and resolved an action, he must allow his opponent the opportunity to take and resolve an action before he can take another, etc.

An action is resolved completely before another action may be taken (exception: disrupt, see below).

A Response is an action that can only be played if the circumstances described in its text are met. Responses are always worded in a fashion similar to the example below:

Response: after a character is destroyed, put 1 success token on a story card.”

A response cannot be played until the effect that triggers it has fully resolved. A response can only be played once per trigger.

Special Exception: There are several responses that take place after a card is destroyed. Normally, cards do not have any effect while in your discard pile, but a card that has a response triggered by its own destruction may be activated.

A Forced Response is an action that a player must trigger when its circumstances apply.

A Disrupt is a special action that can actually cancel or change an action just taken by the opponent. Remember that all actions are fully resolved before the next action may be taken. The disrupt action can create the only exception to this rule.

 



#5 .Zephyr.

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 11:02 AM

I still think FAQ timing detailed summary is more about timing issues, and it clearly states responses are not actions, but this fragment is indeed quite confusing. 

This sounds missleading as action is used in a not really precise way referring to all triggered effects… Also it says "Forced Response is an action that a player must trigger" that contradicts ruling on Dreamlands Messanger (i heard that it doesn't stop Forced Responses and it makes sense). If you were to follow this idea of triggering forced responses, and it would also count as something that "uses up" your action it would make timing structure a real mess. Especially as each player has to be given opportunity to trigger as many reactions as he wants to and do it before next action is executed.

I guess Rulebook needs errata not to contradict FAQ detailed timing. FAQ is quite clear on stating that Responses are not normal actions, but rather optional effects that can be triggered in between actions when their conditions are met.

 



#6 Penfold

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 08:36 AM

 You are both saying the same thing, BUT oneof you is failing to understand the difference between taking an action and playing an Action:…

When a response window opens up no Action: effects can be triggered until all Response: and Disrupt: actions have been played and all Forced Response: effects have been triggered and resolved.

After all of those have been resolved the response window closes and only then is possible for new Action: effects to be played.






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