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#1 Andor

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 06:53 AM

I apologize in advance if this is a perennial discussion topic or hotbutton issue, but what's up with the ranges for the big guns? The range for the artillery pieces, in particular the mortars and the basilisk, would fail to impress the artillery officers of WW I, let alone modern gun crews.

Yes, I know it's the grim dark future and people have forgotten how to add up to 10 on their fingers, but honestly….

I realize part of it is probably a balance issue from the tabletop game, but even there you could call in arty from 'off screen' right? How are we supposed to have the 'sneak behind enemy lines to act as forward observers' mission if you have to carry the guns in your back pocket to begin with?

Not that forward observers should really be necessary if you have the orbitals, and if you don't have the orbitals you're beyond screwed but hey.



#2 Santiago

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 08:42 AM

The range they have is their "normal"range, not their maximum range. Multiply by 4 to have their max range. 14km, 8.75 miles is pretty impressive for WW1 type cannons. It's not like they are railroad guns.



#3 MILLANDSON

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 10:46 AM

Santiago said:

The range they have is their "normal"range, not their maximum range. Multiply by 4 to have their max range. 14km, 8.75 miles is pretty impressive for WW1 type cannons. It's not like they are railroad guns.

Exactly - then, if you want to have attacks even further out, I'd suggest having bombing runs from Marauders rather than arty.


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#4 Andor

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 11:55 AM

14 Km is pushing the range envelope. For horse drawn WW I field artillery.

By WW2 self propelled standards? Not so much. By modern standards? Laughable.

I know we're all grim dark and tech priests have spent 5,000 years trying to master the lost arts of the zipper, but c'mon. I'm not asking for laser guided cruise missiles here, just artillery firing from outside the range of an infantry charge.

 



#5 JuankiMan

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 04:03 PM

Andor said:

14 Km is pushing the range envelope. For horse drawn WW I field artillery.

By WW2 self propelled standards? Not so much. By modern standards? Laughable.

I know we're all grim dark and tech priests have spent 5,000 years trying to master the lost arts of the zipper, but c'mon. I'm not asking for laser guided cruise missiles here, just artillery firing from outside the range of an infantry charge.

Actually, 14km is quite good by WW2 standards. The British 25-pounder had a max range of 12.253, the German 15cm sFH 18 had a range of 13.250m and the Soviet 152mm M1910/30 had a range of 16.800m. Taking into account that all of these weapons have higher calibers than the Earthshaker cannon, which has a 132mm caliber, its range is not that bad. After all, the Earthshaker cannon is not a piece of field artillery, it is a light howitzer. If you need a longer range you use a bigger gun, like a Bombard or other pieces of unnamed artillery that appear in the novels.



#6 Andor

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 03:05 AM

I suppose, although 'light howitzer' seems a poor match for the fluff descriptions that describe the Basilisk as the premier heavy artillery piece of the Imperium.

It's actually pretty close to modern trends although still lacking in performance compared to a modern artillery piece, but the whole WW I vibe of 40k makes me want the big seige guns. I suppose you do have air support and orbital lance batteries however if you really need to call down the thunder.



#7 JuankiMan

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 10:14 AM

 According to the Imperial Armour books, the Earthshaker can fire overcharged rounds (when not mounted in a Basilisk) to extend its range well beyond 15km, though the stress on the barrel limits how many of these can be fired without sanction. 

And yes, the Imperium has siege guns that would make WW I train guns feel terribly inadequate by comparison, but using these monstrosities falls into the realm of the GMs narrative rather than actual rules. Rule of thumb: if anything is even remotely close to the point of impact, it better pray it has a fate point to spare.



#8 Morangias

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 02:13 PM

Yeah, the firing distances have always been out of whack in 40k, both RPG and TT.


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#9 N0-1_H3r3

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 12:48 AM

Andor said:

I suppose, although 'light howitzer' seems a poor match for the fluff descriptions that describe the Basilisk as the premier heavy artillery piece of the Imperium.

Not really. The Earthshaker Cannon is the single most common artillery piece in the Imperium, but it's hardly the best at what it does. It's simple, effective and robust, which is a primary concern for Imperial Guard equipment - it's the kind of gun that you can keep loading and firing continually for weeks if you've got enough shells. For heavy artillery, look to the Manticore missile battery and the Bombard, rather than the Basilisk's Earthshaker cannon.


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#10 Santiago

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 04:16 AM

 Shouldn't the Earth Shaker have a minimum range like the mortar?



#11 Cifer

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 07:03 AM

I'm not sure - I think you could depress the barrel far enough for direct fire. Of course, there might be a minimum range where the crew survives the shot…



#12 Magnus Grendel

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 08:35 AM

JuankiMan said:

And yes, the Imperium has siege guns that would make WW I train guns feel terribly inadequate by comparison, but using these monstrosities falls into the realm of the GMs narrative rather than actual rules. Rule of thumb: if anything is even remotely close to the point of impact, it better pray it has a fate point to spare.

 

To  be honest, the deathwatch Rites of Battle orbital strike assets are pretty good - as are the quick rules for planned barrages and strafing runs/fighter cover. Battlefleet Koronus has stats for an ork fighta-bomma, so you can make a pretty good macro-scale fight.

 



#13 JuankiMan

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 01:16 PM

Magnus Grendel said:

JuankiMan said:

 

And yes, the Imperium has siege guns that would make WW I train guns feel terribly inadequate by comparison, but using these monstrosities falls into the realm of the GMs narrative rather than actual rules. Rule of thumb: if anything is even remotely close to the point of impact, it better pray it has a fate point to spare.

 

 

 

To  be honest, the deathwatch Rites of Battle orbital strike assets are pretty good - as are the quick rules for planned barrages and strafing runs/fighter cover. Battlefleet Koronus has stats for an ork fighta-bomma, so you can make a pretty good macro-scale fight.

 

You could, but I don't think that would be a good idea. If you're going to thrust your OW squad into some Apocalypse-level battle, the best course of action is to make it run entirely in the background. The bigger the battle, the tinier and more insignificant your players are likely to feel unless you center the action entirely on them. Have the battle run entirely on auto-pilot and instead focus entirely on how your player's actions afect it.






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