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gravity drive and ghost of creuss mothership Hil Colish


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#1 Goldherz

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 11:31 PM

Hi

Does the Mothership from ghost of creuss get permanent bonus of +1 to movement with gravity drive? because it starts its movement always on the wormhole it creates self? 

Here is a passage from the FAQ wich is relevant in my opinion.

Q: Does a ship in a Wormhole system or the Gravity Rift
receive the +1 movement bonus from Gravity Drive?
A: A ship in a Wormhole system receives the bonus if there is
another Wormhole connecting to it. A ship in a Gravity Rift
does not receive the bonus unless that system is adjacent to a
system containing another Gravity Rift or a Wormhole.

 

I never played this race but she looks interesting but a bit weak. Because it needs lot of Tech to use its Power. Someone has some experience with this race? 

Would be nice to get some impressions.

 

Greetings Goldherz

 



#2 Solan

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 03:03 PM

Goldherz said:

Hi

Does the Mothership from ghost of creuss get permanent bonus of +1 to movement with gravity drive? because it starts its movement always on the wormhole it creates self? 

Here is a passage from the FAQ wich is relevant in my opinion.

Q: Does a ship in a Wormhole system or the Gravity Rift
receive the +1 movement bonus from Gravity Drive?
A: A ship in a Wormhole system receives the bonus if there is
another Wormhole connecting to it. A ship in a Gravity Rift
does not receive the bonus unless that system is adjacent to a
system containing another Gravity Rift or a Wormhole.

I never played this race but she looks interesting but a bit weak. Because it needs lot of Tech to use its Power. Someone has some experience with this race? 

Would be nice to get some impressions.

Greetings Goldherz

No, the Flag Ship doesn't get the bonus and here's why: The last line of the Ghosts' Flagship card reads"When this ship is moving, treat its destination system as if it had the wormhole."  Therefore, if the Hil Colish were trying to move two spaces, its D wormhole would no longer be adjacent to the flagship, and hence no movement bonus.  

I've had the pleasure of playing the Ghosts of Creuss three times and I can assure you they are hands down my favorite race, for many reasons.  First, I really like their background story and artwork. 

Their home system is the easiest one in the game to defend, since you have the natural chokepoint of the D wormhole, the only way to reach Creuss.  This can be extremely important if you're in the lead as the game heads into its endphase, since your opponents will have great difficultly talking your Home System to stop you from scoring any more points.  Then, too, the Ghosts are one of only three races who start the game with the essential XRD Transports Tech, which is a substantial advantage.

The Ghosts' powers to treat A wormholes as B wormholes and vice versa makes them more mobile than the average race, and their ability to block anyone from using an A or B wormhole to reach a system they control is invaluable!  My group always plays with Artifacts and the Wormhole Nexus and whenever I'm the Ghosts I always place an Artifact token on Mallice.  The Ghosts' racial power ensures that once I take the Nexus, no one is going to ever be able to take it away from me, barring the use of a very few action cards.  If the token I placed was indeed an Artifact, then that's an additional victory point which I can almost never lose!  The Wormhole Nexus also makes an excellent fleet staging area, assuming you purchase a certain Tech . . .

My favorite aspect of the Ghosts has to be what is in my opinion their greatest advantage, the Racial Tech known as the Slave Wormhole Generator.  The SWG makes the Ghosts far and away the most mobile race in the game.  It allows you to reach the Wormhole Nexus and through its ability to open a wormhole in any empty space it enables you to go virtually wherever you need to in the galaxy.  Is your Secret Objective to take another player's homeworld?  The SWG can open a path to the least guarded one.  Do you need a certain number of tech discount planets?  Take a Slave Wormhole to the easiest pickings after you've already taken control of all the tech discount planets in your space.  You can even do multiple strikes, with the first fleet from the Wormhole Nexus being used to open the way for the second fleet, coming from wherever you've put the first slave wormhole.  Finally, combined with the essential-for-the-Ghosts Tech Gravity Drive, the slave wormholes can be used to speed your fleet even if you're not going through a wormhole.  

I've never gotten the other Ghosts' racial tech and I don't always get the Flagship, given its cost, but I ALWAYS get the Slave Wormhole Generator and Gravity Drive.  I've won once, should have won another time but for rampant stupidty on my part (which STILL ended up coming down to a fifty-fifty chance of victory), and was doing great the third time before I made another extremely foolish mistake.  That reminds me, don't forget to either leave one ship in the system you came from to ensure no one can use your own slave wormhole to strike back at you, or make sure you use a slave A wormhole to connnect to a natural B, or B to A to accomplish the same purpose.  

Is that sufficient, or is there anything else you'd like to ask about my impressions of the Ghosts of Creuss?        



#3 Goldherz

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 06:34 AM

Thx for your reply.

To the "hil colish + gravity drive" situation. If i look very detailed in the rules i come to following result.

Gravity Drive: If your ships begin their activation in a system adjacent to a Gravity Rift or Wormhole, you receive +1 movement.

This means for me that the moment where u check if gravity drive gives a bonus is during the activation step. At this moment the "D-Wormhole" should be direct on the hil colish. Means this ship gets +1 movement. Then next step "movement" the wormhole moves away to the activated field.

In result means this for me the Hil Colish would get always the +1 movement bonus?

 

Whats your opinion to this point ?

 

Greetings Goldherz

 

 

 



#4 Solan

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 07:12 AM

You're welcome.  Any other questions or comments re: The Ghosts?

You make a convincing case ruleswise, but I can't shake the feeling that gamewise the Hil Colish was NOT meant to benefit from its own wormhole via gravity drive.  I think that's why they have the line about the wormhole moving to the space the Hil Colish is moving to and that the creators simply did a poor job of wording things.  Unfortunately until this point is addressed in a future FAQ we won't know for sure one way or the other. 

 



#5 Goldherz

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 07:37 AM

 Wise words ;)

 

I think the developers want that die Hil Colish cant use there own wormhole So they wrote this part. Without this part i could be possible to use ur home "d" system an create an D wormhole everwhere on the map with hil colish and fly to ?

Mhh i dont know ;) 

 

But anywhere. If i look on the Values of the Hil Colish for the price of 10 i think its not to strong to become speed 2 with gravity drive …

 

Your impressions are really nice. A lot of inspiration there ;). I like the aspect with the secret objectives!

Nexus is also very strong. If u park the Hil Colish there ur units produced in home system can fast go everywhere on the map.

Will try to play this race next TI3 round. 

 

In my thoughts i get the idea to get aggressive on other players unprotected space docks in mid and lategame. I saw it in another game with Nekro Virus. Its so strong. Because it cost a lot of rebuild an takes a long time before they can produce again at the same location. U have to regain the planets. Wait a round to build space docks. Wait a round to build units there … 

 

The race has a relativ short tech-way to light-wave deflector (4 techs to get it) it would help a lot for this aggressive playstyle. What do you think about this idea? 

 

 



#6 Solan

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 10:15 AM

No, they've addressed that.  You can only move the Hil Colish to a place you can reach with your Flagship's movement, so you can't put its D wormhole anywhere except a hex it could move to normally.   

You know your own playgroup best, but I would strongly discourage getting aggressive on unprotected space docks mid to late game unless you really need to slow a specific player down.  First, doing that uses up your slave wormhole placement for that turn and also uses up the CC and ships needed, all for something which will gain you no victory points.  It also forces you to take the Leadership strategy card, since you have to place the wormhole at the start of the status phase, meaning your intended target will almost certainly act to reinforce his sector or use Diplomacy to protect himself if you take anything except Leadership.  My main worry, though, would be that such actions would make the players I attack to devote themselves to making me lose if they feel I've ruined their chance of victory.  Strike indiscriminately at anywhere open and you could well end up unifying half the table against you!  Even the Ghosts can't buck those odds. 

As I wrote above, I don't believe in going overly aggressive with the Ghosts; I believe in following a dedicated point-scoring strategy with them.  It goes without saying that Light Wave Defelectors would be a fantastic Tech for the Ghosts of Creuss, but I would never try to get it with them.  Why?  Becuase going for LWD would use up far too many resources, resources that the Ghosts need to spend on building ships.  At the minimum you want a fleet with a Carrier full of fighters, a carrier with a couple Mechs, two Cruisers and two Destroyers occupying the Slave Wormhole Nexus and a similarly sized fleet occupying the hex containing the Space Dock(s) that you build in the main galaxy, probably right above the Creuss Gate. 

If you do play the Ghosts of Creuss, please be sure to post here saying how you did with them! 



#7 Goldherz

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 01:09 AM

Nice point of view! I see i need some experience with this race… .Without i always overlook some aspects. 

We mostly play 4 player round. So with the aggressive Option i would try to block all players on long time perspectiv, by killing space docks or conquer hs. But its just an option … most games u have to adept on situation.

I would be interested in what techs u develop for this race? 

U think that the Hil Colish is to strong if gravity drive gives permanent +1 movement bonus? 

I play also a trading card game and ive learned always do right that, what the rules say. In this case the rules say the hil colish gets the bonus and i will play it like that. But i would be interessted i you think its to strong? But as i say the Values of the ship are horrible so i think it would be really ok.

 

I can wrote down my impressions with this race. But i think the next game will be in 2 months or so … its a long time. But TI3 needs such a lot of time so its hard to find a date to play.

 

Greeting GH



#8 Goldherz

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 04:53 AM

 It need a long time for the new session but this we it happend ;)

I play my first round with the Ghost of Creuss.

Here my short impressions:

We play a 4 player game. I got a rly rly weak start spot. No System in my Quater of the map with 2 Planets so i dont get a good productions spot over the entire game. My neighbor an heavy expanding Sol Player and an Necro Virus Player.

But it was ok. I was weak all the game but in the end i was the second player and i would win if i read my promisary note correctly ( i thought it gives my 1 viktory point).

The biggest Problem with this race what i couldnt imagine, is to establish on the map. Where other races have a presence of might through there homesystems, the creuss simply got nothing. It was so hard to claim my own area on the map through that. Then there where only 2 "B" Wormholes on the map. One of them direct at my creuss gate :(. but to other revealed through distant sun so it was ok.

We play with the modded Technology-Card from the asc crew so it was possible to get some cheap techs, even my economy was so pretty bad ;)

http://www.astralvault.net/games/SA/Cards/StrategyCards2.jpg 

I got the wormhole nexus and park the hol colish in there (it doesnt matter if they get 2 movement speed throught gravity drive ;) she never moved again ;))

At the moment where i got Wormhole Generator and light wave deflector i really feel the spirit of creuss, beeing nearly everywhere on the map. What a nice feeling;)

My original plan to attack some Homesystems in the Late-Game to cancel Victory Points was good. My Fleet was just a bit to weak to do it straight.

 

fazit: the race is rly nice if u like the playstyle to be "everywhere and nowhere" the biggest problem is to get a good income. its hard to establish on the map. But i think the tech way to light wave deflector helps a lot, u got some good pds wich can be used to claim ur area so ur ships dont are bound to defend. I will play the race next time again to see how the game develops if u got a better starting position and so a better economy.



#9 freakgib

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 03:21 AM

u did play against the Necro and Sol did the Necro try to steal/copy techs from u the Slave Wormhole Generator is kinda useles for the Necro  cos u can accupy the other end of a wormhole but the Dimensional Splicer could be usefull if they manage to get on a wormole tile

 

btw i think when playing with the Ghost using the Nexus in the game is giving them  maybe to much power if u have ships in the nexus no other player can go on any other A-B wormhole tile

 


Edited by freakgib, 17 September 2013 - 03:27 AM.


#10 Fnoffen

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 01:19 PM

btw i think when playing with the Ghost using the Nexus in the game is giving them  maybe to much power if u have ships in the nexus no other player can go on any other A-B wormhole tile


Incorrect. The Ghosts of Creuss ability state that no player may use an A or B wormhole to enter a tile that the Ghosts control. Any other A or B wormhole is fair game.

It seems appropriate to mention here the official definition of "control" from Page 8 of the FAQ:
"A player controls a system if he controls every planet in the system AND has at least one (non-fighter) ship in the system."

Pax Magnifica Bellum Gloriosum


#11 freakgib

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 02:23 AM

  • Mmmm oke diddnt read it that way so a wormhole in a empty system accupied by the creuss is not under there control so other player may enter from the other site to get to them
  • how about there home system the ability is only for A and B wormholes but not the D wormhole so others can enter the creuss system by entering true the D wormhole  ?
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#12 Fnoffen

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 02:17 PM

An empty system is a system with 0 planets. To control all planets in that system you thusly need to control 0 planets. Or in other words: An empty system is controlled by whoever has at least one (non-fighter) Ship in it.

As you say the wormhole-blocking ability does not apply to the D-wormhole(s). If it did, the Ghosts would be impossible to defeat. Which, at least to me, seems borderline OP.

Edited by Fnoffen, 20 September 2013 - 12:27 AM.

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