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The Outer Reach


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#1 Starglyte

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 05:49 AM

 I was wondering where Deathwatch could go now that we have Honour the Chapter and the various world books for Jericho Reach. I am really looking forward to this book, since I always liked the mysterious and Lovecraftian horror more than a straight up bolter fight.  The little bits about the Dead Cabal are intriguing. 



#2 Gaire

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 10:10 AM

 Moving beyond the Crusade is the right step for Deathwatch. There are plenty of stories to be told about the war effort, but ultimately this is what the Deathwatch is all about: going out, finding new and interesting xenos cultures, and blowing them right the hell up.



#3 Dulahan

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 11:21 AM

Interesting!  I look forward to it.



#4 Garreon

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 12:11 PM

I know it's superficial but 'Dead Cabal' did something for me. I frankly can't wait for my 'Keeper' to be inducted into it's ranks. That & the fact that when I GM my next campaign Necrons are certainly going to be the overarching evil & it'll be be nice to have a deeper rule set for them (that's to say, deeper that those found in the 'Black Crussade' core book).



#5 H.B.M.C.

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 01:05 PM

We had a blast testing this one. The Necrons make for a great enemy!

Cannot wait to see the finished product.

BYE


Matt Eustace. Contributing Author Credits: Church of the Damned, The Lathe Worlds, The Lathe Worlds - The Lost Dataslate, Only War Core Rulebook, Hammer of the Emperor, Shield of Humanity, Tome of Fate, Tome of Blood, Tome of Excess and Tome of Decay.

The views expressed in this post are my own. I do not speak for or on behalf of Fantasy Flight Games.


#6 Alox

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 09:12 PM

 Necrons - finally!



#7 TorogTarkdacil812

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 10:41 PM

Necrons are cool and everything, but I hope that we´ll see some realy creepy and lovecraftian horrors in there. Something like Umbra

Or Enslavers. Or Hrud. Slaught. Children of the Kingdom. Khrave Mindeaters… 


There is nothing as good as seeing rebel scum running out of a cave full of gas, right into the blasters of your battalion-–well, except sunrises, but for those you have to get up early.


#8 borithan

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 11:25 PM

I am struggling to actually see what the book "is" if that makes any sense (adventure? Background? Bestiary?), but it certainly looks interesting.



#9 TorogTarkdacil812

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 01:21 AM

To me it looks like a sourcebook for Game Masters (such as Achillus Assault and Jericho Reach), funny that these expansions are since Disciples of Dark Gods best parts of each 40kRPG game line


There is nothing as good as seeing rebel scum running out of a cave full of gas, right into the blasters of your battalion-–well, except sunrises, but for those you have to get up early.


#10 Adeptus-B

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 05:55 AM

Looks interesting. The Jerico Reach setting has always been my least favorite part of Deathwatch; this could go a long way toward changing my opinion…



#11 Kshatriya

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 06:25 PM

Starglyte said:

 I always liked the mysterious and Lovecraftian horror more than a straight up bolter fight.

Maybe you should play Dark Heresy?



#12 Plushy

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 09:25 PM

Kshatriya said:

Starglyte said:

 

 I always liked the mysterious and Lovecraftian horror more than a straight up bolter fight.

 

 

Maybe you should play Dark Heresy?

 

I personally like the idea of being super powerful and still not being able to do anything against the horrors. Alternatively, a Dark Heresy party investigating something super horrifying on some dead world will die in the first encounter, while a group of Astartes can survive tougher fights. They have the durability to get through horrifying things, and you then have them conserve bolt rounds and spare limbs.

 


My apologies to anyone I offend; FFG staff, playtesters, and forum users alike. 

 

Please check out my Dark Heresy to Only War conversion! You can find it on the main Only War forum. I'm always looking for more people to playtest it!


#13 Starglyte

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 02:40 AM

 I do have Dark Heresy and I like it. But when I think 40k, I think Space Marines, and a supplement that helps makes  Deathwatch more like Lovecraftian horror is a big plus in my book.



#14 Kshatriya

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 06:03 AM

To me it is a little different. I like to throw "horror" at my players but obviously a KT of Astartes is not going to fear the same way a cell of acolytes is…because they're biologically designed not to do so. A thing that would casually give IP to a Space Marine might make a mrotal's heart stop with dread; conversely, a thing that is jarring to a mortal won't make a Space Marine flinch.

That said I also think the different FFG game lines have very big and separate themes. DH is paranoia, investigation, the occult, horror, facing insurmountable odds with inferior quality. RT is exploration, profit, empire-building, and more wondrous than any of the others. DW is strongly combat-focused, more on the special ops side. Whereas OW is focused on combat from the grunt and trencher's side of things, with some investigation thrown in. BC is really mutable in that its theme is more about moral corruption in your chosen method than a particular method in and of itself.

What I mean by this is that you can certainly do occult investigation in DW, but the baseline game theme is superhuman combat where you are demigods among men when it comes to fightan. Whereas the base theme in DH is a lot of horrific investigating and feeling very small in a big nasty universe.

DH themes can work in DW, the game itself is somewhat less suited to it since Astartes are not built for investigation, deception, covert social situations, or experiencing horror. It really depends on the players though and understanding that a Rank 3 acolyte of virtually any stripe is probably a better investigator (on the skills end if not the characteristics end) than a Rank 3 Space Marine.



#15 Shadow Walker

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 08:46 PM

Necrons at last! Diving into Tomb and fighting C'tan Shard would be awesome. It also gives little hope that FFG finally understood that Deathwatch should be about fighting Xenos not Chaos.



#16 Adeptus-B

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 04:58 AM

Shadow Walker said:

[…] -FFG finally understood that Deathwatch should be about fighting Xenos not Chaos.

Amen! If I want to play Space Marines fighing Chaos, I'll build a campaign around the Grey Knights rules from the Dark Heresy supplement Deamonhunter, and stay true to the core concept.



#17 professor_kylan

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 12:42 PM

Kshatriya said:

To me it is a little different. I like to throw "horror" at my players but obviously a KT of Astartes is not going to fear the same way a cell of acolytes is…because they're biologically designed not to do so. A thing that would casually give IP to a Space Marine might make a mrotal's heart stop with dread; conversely, a thing that is jarring to a mortal won't make a Space Marine flinch.

That said I also think the different FFG game lines have very big and separate themes. DH is paranoia, investigation, the occult, horror, facing insurmountable odds with inferior quality. RT is exploration, profit, empire-building, and more wondrous than any of the others. DW is strongly combat-focused, more on the special ops side. Whereas OW is focused on combat from the grunt and trencher's side of things, with some investigation thrown in. BC is really mutable in that its theme is more about moral corruption in your chosen method than a particular method in and of itself.

What I mean by this is that you can certainly do occult investigation in DW, but the baseline game theme is superhuman combat where you are demigods among men when it comes to fightan. Whereas the base theme in DH is a lot of horrific investigating and feeling very small in a big nasty universe.

DH themes can work in DW, the game itself is somewhat less suited to it since Astartes are not built for investigation, deception, covert social situations, or experiencing horror. It really depends on the players though and understanding that a Rank 3 acolyte of virtually any stripe is probably a better investigator (on the skills end if not the characteristics end) than a Rank 3 Space Marine.

I love Lovecraftian horrors in games because I'm not out to scare the characters - I'm out to scare my players. I want them to look at this barely euclidian thing crawling through angles towards them and think "Holy **** - we can't take this!" then have their own characters prove them wrong in ways that make us all high five each other for weeks.



#18 Kshatriya

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 04:05 PM

Shadow Walker said:

Necrons at last! Diving into Tomb and fighting C'tan Shard would be awesome. It also gives little hope that FFG finally understood that Deathwatch should be about fighting Xenos not Chaos.

Deathwatch is about fighting all the enemies of Man, mostly Xenos, but I'd say the VAST majority of people would find it boring to not have ANY rules for loyalist SMs fighting CSMs. I have hope that FFG will continue to expand Chaos options, and I don't think FFG needs to "finally" understand anything in doing so.

 

Adeptus-B said:

Shadow Walker said:

 

[…] -FFG finally understood that Deathwatch should be about fighting Xenos not Chaos.

 

 

Amen! If I want to play Space Marines fighing Chaos, I'll build a campaign around the Grey Knights rules from the Dark Heresy supplement Deamonhunter, and stay true to the core concept.

You make it sound as if GKs would NEVER fight xenos. Sheesh.

Also Daemon Hunter uses the awful DH psychic rules, heh.



#19 Lionus

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 11:03 PM

Kshatriya said:

Also Daemon Hunter uses the awful DH psychic rules, heh.

What's so awful about the DH psychic rules? I actually like them better than the bland, flavorless WP skill check cooked up by FFG.



#20 Saibot

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 08:35 AM

Adeptus-B said:

 

Shadow Walker said:

 

[…] -FFG finally understood that Deathwatch should be about fighting Xenos not Chaos.

 

 

Amen! If I want to play Space Marines fighing Chaos, I'll build a campaign around the Grey Knights rules from the Dark Heresy supplement Deamonhunter, and stay true to the core concept.

 

 

 

Except that from a thematic and gameplay perspective, having Grey Knights fight Traitor Marines is quite different.

 

Firstly, Grey Knight are equipped very differently and fight very differently from either other Loyalist Marines and Traitor Marines. If a GM pits loyalist Marines (whether of the Deathwatch or "standard" Chapters) against CSM for gameplay reasons, he does so to allow for a "mirror-match". Putting a dark mirror in front of the player characters and their players to fight against. Similar equpiment, similar tactics, similar capabilities. With Grey Knights these things fly right out of the window.

Thematically, Grey Knights handle and view fighting Traitor Marines very differently from other Loyalist Marines. Grey Knights stand apart from other Loyalists more than perhaps any other Chapter. Their view of the world and themselves is very different (up to some Grey Knights even refering to other Loyalists Chapters collectively as "the lesser Chapters"). For most Loyalists, a CSM is a Fallen Brother that must be dealt with to Honour the Emperor, their Primarch, their own Vows and -dare I say it?- ease their own doubts. CSM are what a Loyalist could be if he loses what makes him loyal. Thematically, just as above, they are the ultimate dark mirror. Grey Knights could hardly relate to that. Their ties to other Space Marines are slim indeed and their very nature is different. For a Grey Knight, a CSM is almost just another enemy to slay.

Therefore, many of the themes that makes Loyalist vs Traitor interesting are lost when the players are Grey Knights. Of course you could argue that then the GM could make a campaign with all PCs being from one Chapter, but then you lose what makes Deathwatch fun and special compared to single-Chapter games.






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