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"Nice game, I'll take three of 'em"


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#1 Treguard

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 11:44 PM

^ This seems like the general sentiment from the fervent community, that in order to be tournament-ready they'll simply buy as many copies of them game in order to achieve that.

 

Now I have nothing against this if the card limits and distribution allow for this, but I do have some concerns about players potentially draining stocks to fufill their own quota, especially for the initial print run, and the quandary one could find themselves in if they were, say, one box short of a "complete set".

This could just be my naivety showing, but surely the game is playable from the box alone yeah? Surely tournament decks, and the tournaments themselves, could be standardised for single box play?



#2 Mikko Leho

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 05:00 AM

 While this has come up in various forums, I do not believe too many people are going to buy three core sets. I do not have any previous experience with LCCs, but I do not think you automatically need three copies of every single card. If your deck concept requires more cards than came with the core box, just work out another plan. I mean beside obsessive collectors aside most people are going with the core set and any expansions they need.



#3 MarthWMaster

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 06:03 AM

There's also a common theme in these discussions, where the Core Set is said to be designed with the "casual" player in mind. These games are packaged in a style evocative of board games, and that's very intentional on FFG's part. Board gamers come to the table with their own set of wants and expectations that differ from those of CCGers. One of these is the demand for a complete out-of-box play experience, rather than a jumping-off point for beginning an ever-expanding collection. So to deal with this, the company limits most cards in the Core Set box to 1-offs, in order to increase the replay value for players who never expand their game beyond the Core Set. And yet, more competitive or completion-oriented players are compelled to purchase multiple Core Sets in order to fill out their collection. Some of these players are bothered by the fact that they end up with a bunch of extras upon purchasing their third copy, but I think this is a balance that was struck in order to make the game playable right out of the box, while providing enough variety in the cards within to please those who don't pursue the game further.



#4 dboeren

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 07:31 AM

Treguard said:

This could just be my naivety showing, but surely the game is playable from the box alone yeah? Surely tournament decks, and the tournaments themselves, could be standardised for single box play?

Of course it's playable from a single box.  And yes, it's theoretically possible to limit tournaments to using a single Core set, but why would you?  The core concept of an LCG is that you can design your deck.  Telling people they can't use duplicate cards from another Core set (even though the rules allow this) makes no more sense than telling people they can't use any cards from future expansion packs.

You're welcome to buy and use one Core set if you wish, but I don't see any reason for everyone to be limited if they don't choose to.  It runs counter to the game's core concept.



#5 pickle

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 11:08 AM

Mikko Leho said:

 While this has come up in various forums, I do not believe too many people are going to buy three core sets. I do not have any previous experience with LCCs, but I do not think you automatically need three copies of every single card. If your deck concept requires more cards than came with the core box, just work out another plan. I mean beside obsessive collectors aside most people are going with the core set and any expansions they need.

I will be one of the obsessive collectors for this game. I will have cards to play with and have a seperate bindered set for safe keeping. Tis the collector in me that makes me do it. :D



#6 Hannibal_pjv

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 11:16 AM

It can allso be so that some cards like factions cards are limited to one per deck, so no mo cards are even needed. It all depends on amouth of faction vs neutral cards… That would be nice! So no deed to have many extra packages.

 



#7 hatori1181

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 12:04 PM

 you are, of course, making assumptions about what's going to be in the box and that the rules of the game have not changed since the original game. I'm not willing to place bets on how many copies of each card are going to be in the box, but if FFG doesn't impose a 3x maximum rule for the new version of NetRunner, I'll eat my hat.



#8 MarthWMaster

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 12:17 PM

hatori1181 said:

 

 you are, of course, making assumptions about what's going to be in the box and that the rules of the game have not changed since the original game. I'm not willing to place bets on how many copies of each card are going to be in the box, but if FFG doesn't impose a 3x maximum rule for the new version of NetRunner, I'll eat my hat.

 

 

Especially given that they've said they will be doing as much in today's article: "We've also created some deck-building limitations (such as a maximum of three copies of any one card per deck) that leave the heart of the game intact but promote creative exploration and deck diversity."



#9 hatori1181

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 02:22 PM

MarthWMaster said:

hatori1181 said:

 

 you are, of course, making assumptions about what's going to be in the box and that the rules of the game have not changed since the original game. I'm not willing to place bets on how many copies of each card are going to be in the box, but if FFG doesn't impose a 3x maximum rule for the new version of NetRunner, I'll eat my hat.

 

 

Especially given that they've said they will be doing as much in today's article: "We've also created some deck-building limitations (such as a maximum of three copies of any one card per deck) that leave the heart of the game intact but promote creative exploration and deck diversity."

 

Ah! I missed that one. Excellent. Both my hat and I thank you!



#10 Anarchosyn

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 09:04 PM

hatori1181 said:

 you are, of course, making assumptions about what's going to be in the box and that the rules of the game have not changed since the original game. I'm not willing to place bets on how many copies of each card are going to be in the box, but if FFG doesn't impose a 3x maximum rule for the new version of NetRunner, I'll eat my hat.

 

Well, we know the game will ship with 252 cards, and some of these will be neutral. Assuming the seven faction cards are included in this total, we have 245 cards / 7 factions = only 35 cards per faction, and that's without factoring in any neutrals. This assumes a x1 distribution, which is starting to seem more likely. 

Alternatively, they might leave out a few factions from the core set. If this is the case, our hopes for a lumpy distribution rises. 

 



#11 cerealkiller195

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 12:50 AM

 i think the last 7 missing cards are just going  to be the identity cards, with that said i wonder if it is corporate or runner who will suffer a bit from their card pool in the box. Possibly in the form of having myore neutral cards…



#12 hatori1181

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 01:51 AM

Anarchosyn said:

hatori1181 said:

 

 you are, of course, making assumptions about what's going to be in the box and that the rules of the game have not changed since the original game. I'm not willing to place bets on how many copies of each card are going to be in the box, but if FFG doesn't impose a 3x maximum rule for the new version of NetRunner, I'll eat my hat.

 

 

 

Well, we know the game will ship with 252 cards, and some of these will be neutral. Assuming the seven faction cards are included in this total, we have 245 cards / 7 factions = only 35 cards per faction, and that's without factoring in any neutrals. This assumes a x1 distribution, which is starting to seem more likely. 

Alternatively, they might leave out a few factions from the core set. If this is the case, our hopes for a lumpy distribution rises. 

 

 

There is another possibility. A larger number of the cards could be neutral, with only a smaller amount of cards devoted to each faction. The faction cards would now add a "personality" to a deck that is made of neutral cards, and it opens up better possibilities for expansions. with a larger number of neutral cards in the base set, the expansions can focus on adding more faction cards, fleshing out the framework started in the box set.

 

Personally, I'd love to see fewer cards in the base set, but have three of each card (sans the factions ones, of course) in the box.



#13 Anarchosyn

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 06:58 AM

hatori1181 said:

Anarchosyn said:

 

hatori1181 said:

 

 you are, of course, making assumptions about what's going to be in the box and that the rules of the game have not changed since the original game. I'm not willing to place bets on how many copies of each card are going to be in the box, but if FFG doesn't impose a 3x maximum rule for the new version of NetRunner, I'll eat my hat.

 

 

 

Well, we know the game will ship with 252 cards, and some of these will be neutral. Assuming the seven faction cards are included in this total, we have 245 cards / 7 factions = only 35 cards per faction, and that's without factoring in any neutrals. This assumes a x1 distribution, which is starting to seem more likely. 

Alternatively, they might leave out a few factions from the core set. If this is the case, our hopes for a lumpy distribution rises. 

 

 

 

 

There is another possibility. A larger number of the cards could be neutral, with only a smaller amount of cards devoted to each faction. The faction cards would now add a "personality" to a deck that is made of neutral cards, and it opens up better possibilities for expansions. with a larger number of neutral cards in the base set, the expansions can focus on adding more faction cards, fleshing out the framework started in the box set.

 

Personally, I'd love to see fewer cards in the base set, but have three of each card (sans the factions ones, of course) in the box.

 

That bucks the trend of past faction based LCGs; are there any where the faction is just some kind of extra frill on top of the pile of neutral cards? 'Course, lack of precedent doesn't mean it wouldn't happen, but something just feels wrong with the image. 

Also, why would you want x3 for everything but the faction specific cards? So far, they appear to be fairly strong (at least for the Corp). 

 



#14 MarthWMaster

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 09:56 AM

Anarchosyn said:

hatori1181 said:

 

Anarchosyn said:

 

hatori1181 said:

 

 you are, of course, making assumptions about what's going to be in the box and that the rules of the game have not changed since the original game. I'm not willing to place bets on how many copies of each card are going to be in the box, but if FFG doesn't impose a 3x maximum rule for the new version of NetRunner, I'll eat my hat.

 

 

 

Well, we know the game will ship with 252 cards, and some of these will be neutral. Assuming the seven faction cards are included in this total, we have 245 cards / 7 factions = only 35 cards per faction, and that's without factoring in any neutrals. This assumes a x1 distribution, which is starting to seem more likely. 

Alternatively, they might leave out a few factions from the core set. If this is the case, our hopes for a lumpy distribution rises. 

 

 

 

 

There is another possibility. A larger number of the cards could be neutral, with only a smaller amount of cards devoted to each faction. The faction cards would now add a "personality" to a deck that is made of neutral cards, and it opens up better possibilities for expansions. with a larger number of neutral cards in the base set, the expansions can focus on adding more faction cards, fleshing out the framework started in the box set.

 

Personally, I'd love to see fewer cards in the base set, but have three of each card (sans the factions ones, of course) in the box.

 

 

 

That bucks the trend of past faction based LCGs; are there any where the faction is just some kind of extra frill on top of the pile of neutral cards? 'Course, lack of precedent doesn't mean it wouldn't happen, but something just feels wrong with the image. 

Also, why would you want x3 for everything but the faction specific cards? So far, they appear to be fairly strong (at least for the Corp). 

 

I believe they were referring to the Identity cards, which will most likely be set aside at the start of the game, and assuming you aren't playing multiple decks with the same faction, you wouldn't want more than one of each.



#15 Anarchosyn

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 10:03 AM

MarthWMaster said:

 

 

 

I believe they were referring to the Identity cards, which will most likely be set aside at the start of the game, and assuming you aren't playing multiple decks with the same faction, you wouldn't want more than one of each.

 

 

 

Reread what he said:

"A large number of the card could be neutral, with only a smaller number of cards devoted to each faction."

In essence: The game would ship with anywhere between 5 and 10 faction cards, per faction, and the bulk of your deck would be comprised of neutrals (hence the factions being subtle "flavorings" in a sense). 

 *Edit: Ooh, I see what you mean there, you were referring to his final comment. I thought you were speaking to the bulk of my objection (the "FFG has no precedent for using factions as flavorings" bit). Yeah, he probably was talking about the 7 identity cards when he said "faction cards" coming in a x1 distribution. 

Anyway,  we have a collection of possibilities, all of which seem kind of lame:

1) The game ships light on faction cards, allowing a lumpy distribution. 

2) The game ships light on factions (like A Game of Thrones did), allowing for a lumpy distribution and a decent stock of faction cards.

3) The game ships light on neutrals, and in a x1 distribution (allowing for a decent stock of faction cards).

 

 



#16 ImmortalJedi

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 05:47 AM

pickle said:

 

I will be one of the obsessive collectors for this game. I will have cards to play with and have a seperate bindered set for safe keeping. Tis the collector in me that makes me do it. :D

 

For pretty much every CCG/TCG I've played I have also had a binder with a complete set for safe keeping, and then another set plus lots of extras to play with. I finally broke that habit with the LCG model. I guess it is easier knowing that if I need another copy of a card, I know exactly where to find it.

Back to topic, I'll be picking up 2 Core sets and if I feel I need a 3rd one I will eventually pick it up.



#17 ironchefzod

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 07:16 AM

I'm buying three.  In it for the win.  :)



#18 dboeren

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 09:38 AM

I think just two copies for me, and I can pick up a 3rd later if I feel like I need to and if I like the game enough.  Two, then play, then decide.



#19 Doc9

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 12:58 PM

 3 out of the gate!



#20 Anarchosyn

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 05:33 PM

 1 box at first, depending on the prevalence of x3 cards. I'll only purchase a second box if real x3 synergies make themselves apparent (e.g. if I gravitate to playing as Noise and all the viruses are x2  in the box, etc). 

The third will come if I get into tournament play, but I'd rather fill in my x3 blanks with pack cycle cards.  

 

 






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