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Needing less victory points to win


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#1 Crash55

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 02:58 PM

 In our last game two things came in to play that reduced the number of victory points required to win - Shard of the Throne (LAW) political card and the Precursor Space Station domain counter.  The question that arose is what happens if a player is at 9 VP's and obtains one of these two things?  Do they win immediately or do they have to wait till the status phase? In the status phase do they win immediately or do they have to wait till their turn comes up to claim victory?

In this game there was no way for them to lose the Shard of the Throne card (of the two other remaining players one had passed and the Diplomacy Strat card had been played against the other one) we just gave him the game.  We were leaning towards making him wait till the status phase and then giving him the win that way since he would enter the status phase with the required VPs.



#2 Fnoffen

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 09:39 PM

The official win part of the round is the first step of the status phase but if there indeed is no possible way to take away one or more VP's from the winning player (i.e. wringing control of an artifact or precursor station from him, remembering that the "local unrest" AC would be a legal move to make him loose control of an artifact even if it's the diplomized player who plays it) then in the interrest of shortening the pain for the other players I would also vote for ending the game immediatley.


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#3 Treguard

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 09:40 PM

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this would come into effect immediately.

There are plenty of examples that could support this since all victory points gained mid-round are scored immediately, potentially ending the game when played. These are things such as secret objectives, SE's Artifact variant, the Voice of the Council card and the Bureaucracy strategy card.

Now VP requirement reductions are a relatively new feature, only introduced in SotT I believe, but unless the rules/FAQ state otherwise I would surmise that the work the same as all other VP adjustments ie, effective immediately.

As long as you all played in concordance with the ad-hoc ruling however, then no bigee. If anything, the tension of having to retain the winning condition until the end of the round could make the game a little more satisfying, depending on the circumstances.



#4 Fnoffen

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 06:18 AM

Good point, Treguard. After re-reading the rulebooks, I would have to agree.

The  base rulebook states, on page 14 bottom right: "When a player advances his Control Marker to the 10th step of the Victory Point Track, he has gained the power needed to claim the Imperial throne on Mecatol Rex."

When playing vanilla, this could only happen during the status phase but with the expansions there are ways to gain VPs outside the status phase and thus it should be possible to win mid-round.

Hmmm…. It just ocurred to me that it would actually be theoretically possible to win with as few as 2 VP. But to get 7 other players to give you their "you now need one less VP to win"-Promissory Note while you also control the Precursor Station is, to say the least, highly improbable…


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#5 Treguard

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 09:34 PM

^Most boring galactic dispute evar

"The imperial seat is empty! Who will take over the throne and rule the galaxy?"

"Uhh, Mike?"

"He is indeed a bro among us. Very well then, if we are all cool with this, Mike shall now be our Galactic ruler!"



#6 Fnoffen

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 10:09 PM

Treguard said:

^Most boring galactic dispute evar

"The imperial seat is empty! Who will take over the throne and rule the galaxy?"

"Uhh, Mike?"

"He is indeed a bro among us. Very well then, if we are all cool with this, Mike shall now be our Galactic ruler!"

Hippielight Imperium? 


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#7 Kerrin2

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 10:24 AM

 While victory points can be scored at various times during a game round (e.g. artifacts), the only step in the game round sequence where victory conditions are checked is in the Status Phase (unless I missed another one somewhere). So I'm thinking they have to hang on to their victory points until then.



#8 Dulkal

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 12:16 AM

Kerrin2 said:

 While victory points can be scored at various times during a game round (e.g. artifacts), the only step in the game round sequence where victory conditions are checked is in the Status Phase (unless I missed another one somewhere). So I'm thinking they have to hang on to their victory points until then.

While this is a common house rulse, the rules never actually talk about 'checking victory conditions'. They just state that when a player advances to the 10th step on the victory point track, they win the game.



#9 Fnoffen

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 01:19 AM

 

I believe the reason that many people use this as a house rule is simply based on the fact that the text "When a player advances his Control Marker to the 10th step of the Victory Point Track, he has gained the power needed to claim the Imperial throne on Mecatol Rex." is located in conjunction with the Status Phase step 1 explanation in the base rulebook. And in vanilla TI3 that is, if I'm not mistaken, the only part of a round where you actually can score VPs.

I cannot, however, find a single part of any rulebook and/or FAQ where it specifically states that you must wait until the status phase to check for win conditions. This might be an oversight by the designers, in which case you must wait, or it might be indicative that you don't have to wait. The only way to find out for certain is to send in a rules query.

[edited for spelling]


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#10 Treguard

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 12:17 AM

Just make sure everyone's of the same understanding before you play, whether they claim victory instantly or on the upcoming status phase.

No real right answer here, as Fnoffen has described, so you can't be faulted for playing one way or the other. I know our group plays it with instant victory, but it could be fun to mix it up.

The way I see it, one rewards creative, tactical play more, whilst the other needs a slightly more solid, conservative strategy to keep and maintain those loose VPs as the alleged final round ticks away- tense gameplay either way!



#11 Farro

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 05:04 AM

Kinda afraid to be a thread necromancer, but here goes.

I don't know what kind of Hacan herbs you've been smoking, but in vanilla TI3 the most obvious way to victory is ofcourse the #8 Imperial Strategy Card. The rulebook states that if you play by the rules, only one of the players is at 10 Victory Points first. Then the game ends immediately, even if someone else gets to 10 Victory Points later that round. Objectives are scored in Status Phase, but that doesn't help if someone managed to get to 10 with the Imperial Card.

And I know this to be pure fact, for I have just bought the game and played 2 games. In both games I had to check if the victory conditions truly are so ruthless. In the next game I'll know better than to sit back and think "I'll catch up after this round"

And as for the OP, my understanding is that he wins the game right then and there. He has reached the maximum VPs and is the new Emperor.

 



#12 Shadow

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 08:44 AM

"When a player advances his Control Marker to the 10th step of the Victory Point Track, he has gained the power needed to claim the Imperial throne on Mecatol Rex."

It is all about moving the "Control Marker" on the Victory Point Track….

During Status, you can claim an objective and this allows you to move the "Control Marker"

Lose your homeworld, you cannot claim an objective during status so you cannot move the "Control Marker" by claiming an objective.

Lose your homeworld but claim an Artifact, the "Control Marker" moves up 1

Get elected to gain or lose 1 VP, your "Control Marker" moves up or down 1  on the Victory Point Track whether you own your homeworld or not.

Need less VPs to Win.   When your "Control Marker" hits the needed number, the game instantly stops…..you win.
 

If many players can claim Victory, then in goes in the Iniative order of the Strategy card they have.

The first person to move his "Control Marker" to the needed number, the game instantly stops, he wins.

 

Even if 1 person would have 4 VPs more then him, it makes no difference.

So even if a player is wiped out, no planets , no ground troops, just 1 destroyer left on the board.  He would be the new emperor

Just because he moved his "Control Marker" on the Victory Point Track to the needed VP point …."First"

 

There has been alot of games where one player had only a few ships left on the board and he wins.  The Saar race wins alot in this manner.  Expands like crazy, claiming VPs on the way and then gets gets beaten back to 1 or 2 worlds and wins.

The game is all about getting that "Control Marker" to move to the needed VP point on the Victory point track…."First"

The only exception is claiming an INSTANT WIN Public two objective.  You  can win the game this way with 0 VPs.

That is the only "wild card" option there in the game for the players that are hopelessly behind in VPs.

 



#13 Farro

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 12:59 AM

Shadow said:

There has been alot of games where one player had only a few ships left on the board and he wins. The Saar race wins alot in this manner. Expands like crazy, claiming VPs on the way and then gets gets beaten back to 1 or 2 worlds and wins.
 

Yes, I've heard that happens pretty often. The winner is pushed back to square one once others realize that he or she is going to be victorious, unless they do something about it.






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