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Koronus Bestiary - Worth the wait?


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#1 David B

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 10:31 AM

Well, I got my copy this morning, and the bedamned book has kept me away from work far more than it should have…

Anyway, I am very happy with it, and would say 'Yes, it was worth the wait', or words to that effect. I do like a lot of the less obvious monsters, as they are not things I would automatically have thought of, but in many cases can be ported to other situations quite easily, such as the unquenched, which could be very easily used as a 'cold' monster (freezing rather than dehydrating) if the situation demanded.

I found it a lot more thorough than Creatures Anathema, and though perhaps not as atmospheric, still a good read (well, skim, I have probably only gone over 1/4 of it in any detail). It doesn't reproduce material (so no Eldar rangers or dire avengers, as they are in Creatures Anathema, etc) - one of those things which will leave some people miffed for having to buy another book, and others happy for not buying the same things twice. I am quite happy about the Eldar, as I have Creatures Anathama, but not having the DW xenos book, the missing kroot are a bother….

There are always going to be things that one would like added - I for one would have liked more on Stryxis, which, after Eldar and Kroot are quickly becoming my next favourite alien - maybe Stryxis PCs in the future? (Well, I know they would be down the priority list, but nevermind…)

Anyway, in short, the book should have come out ages ago (to be honest, two years ago - it is probably more useful than Battlefleet Koronus and certainly more so than Hostile Acquisitions), but it is great fun, and I am not peeved in having to wait far longer than anyone thought likely for it.

Well, my 2p anyway.

What does everyone else think? Worth the wait?

All best,

David.



#2 Plynkes

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 10:57 AM

Definitely worth the wait. Some very interesting monsters tied to existing planetary settings that have given me loads of plot ideas already. And I really like the continuing narrative of the put-upon Arch Militant and her somewhat stupid, thrill-seeking Rogue Trader that runs through the book.

However, I can't help but think the chunk in the middle about Eldar and Orks detracts from the rest of it. What I really like is the NEW stuff, the stuff that is unique to the Expanse, the stuff that fires my imagination and gives me new ideas. Orks and Eldar I already know about. And there are already loads of FFG books crammed with info about them.  Did we really need twelve (twelve, for Christ's sake?) new types of Eldar when we could have had a few more new aliens instead? Surely basing every published RT campaign so far around them is enough? And we have Ork stuff coming out of our ears already if you look across all the games and their supplements. It's old ground. We have seen it all so many times before. We don't need it padding out another book.

 

I am happy, but would have been much happier if that BIG space in the middle of the book that has all this Orky/Elvey stuff was devoted to more creatures and sentient races unique to the Expanse instead.

 

But even considering that, definitely worth it.

 

(Can you tell I don't really like the Eldar all that much? )



#3 Adeptus-B

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 02:18 PM

Well, I know what I'l be buying next payday…

I hope this book sells well enough to convince FFG to make Creatures Anathema II- this time with a looser, more Monster Manual-ish feel.



#4 Cornwallis

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 02:28 PM

its neither available at amazon or FFG's shop. where can i order this now?

 



#5 Plynkes

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 08:33 PM

For some reason, we Europeans have got it and North America does not. Amazon.co.uk currently has copies for sale.



#6 David B

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 09:22 PM

Plynkes, I do see your point about Eldar and Orks, and I can see why you (and no doubt many other people) see there being too much on them. I however, am quite happy with the amount on each species in the book. I found reading (it kept me up all night, damn it!) about Sslyth etc very interesting, but I know in my heart that I almost certainly won't use them, or if I do it would be in a very one-shot sort of way. Partly because I am busy, partly because I am lazy, and partly because my formative 40K experience was playing the 2nd ed of the wargame in the 90s, my adventures are almost solely inhabited by Orks and Eldar - I know enough about them so as to be able to run them without thinking much (and back in the day I had tabletop armies for both of them), and anyone with a passing acquaintance with the 40K universe is familiar with them. Sometimes a new 'baddie' is fun for all concerned, and having some is great, but on a day to day basis, it is generally orks and eldar for us.

Now, these rarer and more localised aliens are great, and really interesting, and something I would like to introduce if I got the chance, but I know from a practical point of view, Orks play the mindless violent alien part very well, and Eldar the cunning, most likely up to something alien part very well, and it is quite convenient to use them far more than anything else.

Or, to put it another way, reading stats of a Howling Banshee aspect warrior is not interesting (when compared to reading about SSlyth, or any other alien unique to the Expanse), but I know that I have a much better chance of actually using those Howling Banshee stats.

I suppose books like this have to strike a balance between utility (as  book full of adversaries for you to make use of as needed), and interest (as interesting reads with lots of nice pictures which keep you up all night when you have deadlines…). I think the Koronus Bestiary has got that balance about right, and probably better than Creatures Anathema, which was loads of fun to read, but a bit thin on actual aliens and monsters to fight.

Well, that is what I think anyway.

All best,

David.



#7 borithan

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 02:17 AM

I liked the book, but I would have preferred if the entries on known things (most Eldar and Ork things) had been a bit slimmed down (not quite Dark Heresy rulebook slimmed down, but less background) so that the more unique things could get more space.

 

Though I guess they have to work on the presumption that not all readers are heavily versed in 40k lore.



#8 Seeten

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 06:50 AM

In regards to Plynkes, until there is a game featuring Eldar, I'll continue to desire every bestiary, supplement and adventure to feature as much Eldar as possible, as they are the best part of 40K by a mile.

I dunno what GW sees in the Imperium, it bores me to tears, every piece of Imperium cut to make way for more Eldar works for me.



#9 Plynkes

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 07:23 AM

I'm sorry, I nodded off there for a moment, as you were talking about the… yawn… Eldar. What was that again?

 

In my version of the 40K universe Slaanesh must have ate the whole bloody lot of them, because you just don't tend to run into them. Or they never existed in the first place, and are simply what they appear to be: Space Fairies invented by tired mothers to frighten their naughty children into behaving.

 

Generally speaking, I love the 40K setting, all of it. Apart from three key things, and they all stem from its "Warhammer Fantasy in Space" roots:

1) Space Elves

2) "Comedy" Orks (with all their daft mockney names for everything - they might sound strange and exotic to American ears, but to me they just sound stupid, and rob them of the menace they ought to have)

3) Daemons that are too "Demony." I would prefer my denizens of the warp to be more like weird Lovecraftian eldritch abominations, and less like medieval demons. And they will be.

But that's just me. And I'm pretty much fine with everything else. Apart from Space Dwarves and Space Hobbits that is, but you don't tend to see them much these days.

 

I guess we'll just have to accept that we don't like the same things, and I'll go on being ticked off by the fact they keep filling Rogue Trader books with Eldar stuff, and you'll go on being ticked off by all these Imperium-based games they keep making. At least both of us are equally unhappy, that's gotta be some consolation for the other.



#10 Seeten

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 07:44 AM

Plynkes said:

 

I guess we'll just have to accept that we don't like the same things, and I'll go on being ticked off by the fact they keep filling Rogue Trader books with Eldar stuff, and you'll go on being ticked off by all these Imperium-based games they keep making. At least both of us are equally unhappy, that's gotta be some consolation for the other.

This is the relevant part, for sure. I don't wish they'd stop making space marines, or imperial guard, I just wish they'd let the Eldar have at least 1 of the 4-5 games in the game line. It boggles my mind, honestly.

Dark Heresy, Deathwatch, Rogue Trader, though at least RT has non Imperium elements..Only War is where it really gets me.

You've got Imperial Guards in DH. Do you really need a second Imperium based War game? Bah.

 

 

 



#11 H.B.M.C.

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 10:38 AM

You consider DH a 'war' game?



Anyway, Koronus Besitary is a great book. I really like the narrative that continues all the way through. It's quite amusing, and an excellent framing device (IMO) for the book. I think that Deathwatch players will find the Eldar stuff useful, and the Ork stuff (as there isn't much DW-centric Ork stuff). It would even be good for OW players who want to fight Eldar.

And it has a wonderful Xenos Generator in there! Make more creatures if you want more!

BYE


Matt Eustace. Contributing Author Credits: Church of the Damned, The Lathe Worlds, The Lathe Worlds - The Lost Dataslate, Only War Core Rulebook, Hammer of the Emperor, Shield of Humanity, Tome of Fate, Tome of Blood, Tome of Excess and Tome of Decay.

The views expressed in this post are my own. I do not speak for or on behalf of Fantasy Flight Games.


#12 Seeten

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 11:21 AM

H.B.M.C. said:

You consider DH a 'war' game?

Nah, I was referring to Deathwatch as the first war game.



#13 Gregorius21778

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 06:56 AM

So guys, mind giving me a quick summary of what it is incide? It would be helpful for my futur decisions. Thanks!



#14 Plynkes

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 08:03 AM

From the other thread about this book:

 

H.B.M.C. said:

signoftheserpent - You asked for a contents listing a few pages back:

Introduction

Chapter I: Beasts & Monsters
Clawed Fiend
Creeping Stalker
Khymera
Killian's Bane
Medusae
Mukaali
Razorwing
Sang Tiger
Shadowkith
Species x-10198.rk
Terrorax
Thornmaw
Unquenched
Ur-Ghul
Void Kraken

Chapter II: Aliens of the Expanse
The Eldar (Dark Reaper, Fire Dragon, Howling Banshee, Shadow Spectre, Striking Scorpion, Swooping Hawk, Warp Spider, Wraithguard, Wraithlord, Autarch, Eldar Guardian/Corsair, Avatar)
The Orks (Ork Nob/Krushas, Freeboota Kaptin, Kommando, Mad Dok, Mekboy, Speed Freak, Ork Boy, Gretchin, Runtherd, Attack Squig, Bomb Squig, Guard Squig, Snotling Mob)
The Rak'Gol (Abominations, Render)
Sslyth Mercenary
The Stryxis (Nomad, Master - Master Raider, Vat Master, TechSight Master, Slave Master, Vat-Labourer/Stryxis Slaves)
The Yu'Vath (Bone Conqueror, Crystalwisp, Fossil Horror, Sandslime)

Chapter III: Denizens of the Warp
Beast of Nurgle
Flesh Hound of Khorne
Fury of Chaos
Screamer of Tzeentch
Veiled Deceit

Chapter IV: Xenos Generator
Random Flora Generator
Random Fauna Generator
Random Xenos Generator

 

BYE



#15 borithan

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 11:00 PM

Plynkes said:

 

2) "Comedy" Orks (with all their daft mockney names for everything - they might sound strange and exotic to American ears, but to me they just sound stupid, and rob them of the menace they ought to have)

Well, while the Orks have been the comedy race for quite some time, remember this is only when presented from their own perspective. The mockney accents are representative of their language, not what it actually sounds like (much as Low Gothic isn't English and High Gothic isn't pig Latin). Looking from an Imperial perspective they are going to the menacing creatures you want them to be.



#16 Plynkes

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 11:26 PM

While what you say is sort of true we only get this Orkish perspective, even in the Koronus Bestiary, which is otherwise written from the perspective of a human Arch Militant. All those stupid names are treated as if they are the official and only names for these things. If you want them to be menacing instead of comedic you have strip all that nonsense away and not use it or refer to it, and you have to make up new human terms for Ork equipment and personnel, ones that don't sound so bloody ridiculous. That is what I do, but I would prefer not to have to.

 

Whoever thought it was a good idea to name what is supposed to be a terrifying alien monster a flash git? Is this the grim dark 41st Millenium, or is it an episode of Minder? And I cannot in all honesty ever refer to a major alien antagonist as a "Nob" during a game. It would totally break immersion as I would have to wait five minutes for my players to stop laughing. Where I come from that is slang for penis.

 

Anyway, it is a small thing I can work around. Doesn't stop me enjoying the setting.



#17 borithan

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 11:39 PM

Plynkes said:

Whoever thought it was a good idea to name what is supposed to be a terrifying alien monster a flash git? Is this the grim dark 41st Millenium, or is it an episode of Minder? And I cannot in all honesty ever refer to a major alien antagonist as a "Nob" during a game. It would totally break immersion as I would have to wait five minutes for my players to stop laughing. Where I come from that is slang for penis.
Well, and at least semi-derogatory slang for "noble" (the reference that is intended, though I am not sure which came first). 40k has always had the weird dissonance between grim and fairly… unsophisticated humour. Just guess I gloss over it in my mind, though I will admit the Orks have never really been one of my favoured races.



#18 Plynkes

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 12:52 AM

Yes, it is not a problem, merely an annoyance.

 



#19 Darth Fanboy

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 01:13 AM

 At some point in Warhammer Fantasy Orc unit leaders became Bosses.  Why this did not cross over to the Orks of 40K is beyond me.

 

It's not even as if there's a lack of precedent, Bosses and Big Bosses date back to Rogue Trader (the tabletop one).  It's just… silly.



#20 H.B.M.C.

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 04:36 AM

The Orks started off as a combination between Nazi troopers and English soccer hooligans. They've got a bunch of cockney slang in them, and it's remained so since they first came about. Flash Gits are called that because that's what regular Orks call them - they're the Orks with the ostentatious costumes and fancy gubbinz, so the Ork boys make fun of them.

All makes sense in context IMO.

BYE


Matt Eustace. Contributing Author Credits: Church of the Damned, The Lathe Worlds, The Lathe Worlds - The Lost Dataslate, Only War Core Rulebook, Hammer of the Emperor, Shield of Humanity, Tome of Fate, Tome of Blood, Tome of Excess and Tome of Decay.

The views expressed in this post are my own. I do not speak for or on behalf of Fantasy Flight Games.





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