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A couple of Ideas: Regimental Limitations & Poor Quality Kit


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#1 Woodclaw

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 04:32 AM

Toying with the regiment creation rules I stumbled upon the following problems/ideas.

 

First of all I think that some kind of "regimental limitations" should be included to simulate both tactical blind spots and the history of the regiment.

For example some regiments are completly devoided of Abhumans (Kriegs tend to), or have a history of insubordination (Catachans for example), or lacks the resources to fully equip their soldiers (like the Red Army prior to 1943). I think that they should get some kind of bonus to compensate these limitations.

 

Another idea in the same vein: the cost in the Additional Kit Items Table are meant for starndard quality items (unless otherwise noted), but what if I want to add a poor quality item to save some points?

E.G. I gave to one of my scout regiments Preysense Googles as part of their standard kit. The Googles cost 15 points and are standard quality. How much does poor quality googles cost?

Based on the fact that a poor quality item gave a +20 to the requisition test, which equates to an increase of two ranks in avability I guess that the cost should drop 2 levels (in the previous case from 15 to 8), likely with a minimum of 1 point.

What do you think? Does this makes any sense?



#2 Musclewizard

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 05:20 AM

Sounds reasonable enough. Something official on down and upgrading weapons for the Kit would be nice though.



#3 Alex Cube

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 09:45 AM

 that sounds entirely reasonable

In fact I can't understand why regiment creation has only five "big" options, RT starships had many times more and noone complained that it was too complex, more like the other way, and regiment, unlike starships, are made only once and cannot be customized after that so why soo few options?



#4 MILLANDSON

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 02:18 PM

Alex Cube said:

 that sounds entirely reasonable

In fact I can't understand why regiment creation has only five "big" options, RT starships had many times more and noone complained that it was too complex, more like the other way, and regiment, unlike starships, are made only once and cannot be customized after that so why soo few options?

Because they wanted to make them quick and simple? Because they only really add a few changes to your squad (such as a few extra skills/talents, and some equipment changes), compared to almost literally defining what kind of game you are going to play? Because they didn't have the page count for more in-depth rules?

There are lots of reasons. I can see a few additions that would be nice (like Additional Equipment rules for giving you back extra points for reducing the craftsmanship of items to Poor), but otherwise I think the rules do what they need to do fairly well.


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#5 Alex Cube

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 09:58 PM

MILLANDSON said:

Because they wanted to make them quick and simple? Because they only really add a few changes to your squad (such as a few extra skills/talents, and some equipment changes), compared to almost literally defining what kind of game you are going to play? Because they didn't have the page count for more in-depth rules?

There are lots of reasons. I can see a few additions that would be nice (like Additional Equipment rules for giving you back extra points for reducing the craftsmanship of items to Poor), but otherwise I think the rules do what they need to do fairly well.

Quick and simple in my opinion is not an issue -- in ordinary games you only create regiment once and in fact my players (2 parties) were very enthusiastical on this. You kinda underestimate thhat by saying "some equipment changes" -- it's sorta hard to play recon if your group has a tank  and what you said about that "they only add a few changes to your squad" that's absolutely true right now, but don't you think it should be the other way? Regiment, after all, is something entirely unique -- everyone of them is at least a bit but different from another, even from the same planet, even of the same type (drop, siege, etc.)

Page count sounds not -- this is beta, I know that, but the rules are fully presented, I mean how would FFG meant for us to test rules they didn't even publish? And what I really don't like is that regiment creation just gives you skills without means of improving it like in DeathWatch, I think DW system of chapter creation was waaaay better than this one -- if to extrapolate -- if the same system would be in OW than you'd be able to create, lets say stealth regiment like tanith1 and the like simply by allowing to buy (but not giving from start) stealth, stealth+10, stealth+20 (or maybe even all 5) ranks of that stealth -- that way you don't give the regiment stealth fully packed skill, or even the first rank of it but you allow them to buy it for reasonable prices

About "rules do what they need to do fairly well" I would disagree with you -- some options are OP for their prices and some cost too much and give almost nothing, equipment section gives very small bonuses and are practically useless if to line them with aptitude giving feats that cost the same, the point that leftover points are just burnt… all that needs improvement very, very much IMO

 

 

 

 



#6 DJSunhammer

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 10:45 PM

There are a group of choices during regiment creation, Training Doctrines, that can give you Aptitudes. They will give you easier access to some advances. Though not all options give you an aptitude.

I do agree that the costs and rewards for regiment creation should be tweaked though.



#7 MorioMortis

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 05:55 AM

Alex Cube said:

MILLANDSON said:

Page count sounds not -- this is beta, I know that, but the rules are fully presented, I mean how would FFG meant for us to test rules they didn't even publish? And what I really don't like is that regiment creation just gives you skills without means of improving it like in DeathWatch, I think DW system of chapter creation was waaaay better than this one -- if to extrapolate -- if the same system would be in OW than you'd be able to create, lets say stealth regiment like tanith1 and the like simply by allowing to buy (but not giving from start) stealth, stealth+10, stealth+20 (or maybe even all 5) ranks of that stealth -- that way you don't give the regiment stealth fully packed skill, or even the first rank of it but you allow them to buy it for reasonable prices

You do know that what you just suggested is essentially giving the regiment the Fieldcraft aptitude right? It gives them all the standard infiltration stuff (Stealth, Awareness, Navigate) and a few survival stuff for cheaper. You just have to work a little, and make up a new Training Doctrine for it, call it Survivors or something (or take the Fieldcraft one and change it's name, solving the issue of it not giving the ability it is named after). Price it at around 3, and have fun with your new stealth regiment.

Alternatively, you could just give them Fieldcraft, which gives them an Aptitude in Agility, which includes stealth, and more bonuses in the favorite environment.

The OW system is incredibly modular, and, with slight modifications here and there to the pieces, it's really simple to create anything you want. Moreover, you won't realy have to worry about it unbalancing the game, because everybody gets the same bonuses.


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#8 Snowman0147

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 05:29 PM

Well it does cost +5 more to bring common quality to good quality for items in your standard regiment kits.  Would it make more sense to bring common quality items down by -5 so it can be poor quality?



#9 Alex Cube

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 12:21 AM

MorioMortis said:

You do know that what you just suggested is essentially giving the regiment the Fieldcraft aptitude right? It gives them all the standard infiltration stuff (Stealth, Awareness, Navigate) and a few survival stuff for cheaper. You just have to work a little, and make up a new Training Doctrine for it, call it Survivors or something (or take the Fieldcraft one and change it's name, solving the issue of it not giving the ability it is named after). Price it at around 3, and have fun with your new stealth regiment.

Alternatively, you could just give them Fieldcraft, which gives them an Aptitude in Agility, which includes stealth, and more bonuses in the favorite environment.

The OW system is incredibly modular, and, with slight modifications here and there to the pieces, it's really simple to create anything you want. Moreover, you won't realy have to worry about it unbalancing the game, because everybody gets the same bonuses.

You've read the letter, not the thought. So to explain otherwise try to make drop troops with tech-use, fluff-wise that's no problem but how about OW rules? I think not. What I am saying is we need something of DW chapter creation -- at least the thing that gives you few cheap advances, and in any way we need to expand regiment creation because it is not, in fact, only regiment creation by now, but it is character creation too (thou character creation should be added too). and about modifications -- it doesn't have so much of them really and if you mean my own modification than there stands the question why in the name of gods should I buy Only War if i can do the same game on my own using Dark Heresy which I already own? Think of it that way






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