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Implant Augur/Cybernetics


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#1 signoftheserpent

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 02:45 AM

This seems broken. I know it's mroe or less the same in all games but it seems that a character with an augur implant doesn't lose out from switching his implant on. He gets all the benefits, never has to switch it off, nor has to lose anything/compensate while it's active. All those bonuses (depending on craftsmanship) are active.

Conversely using an Augur as a device, not an implant, doesn't seem to require any action to activate. Unlike the cybernetic equivalent, there is no mention of requiring a half action to activate. Again no mention of how long it can remain active or the process of deactivation.

Surely then the first thing a Techpriest with an Augur implant will do is switch on. Then it remains active and he enjoys a hefty benefit for the rest of his life!



#2 vogue69

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 06:26 AM

well the auspex doens'nt necessary kill you when you buy it. the internal augur might.



#3 signoftheserpent

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 06:31 AM

Why would it kill you? THe implant has no deleterious effect listed. You just leave it on and receive a huge advantage.



#4 KommissarK

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 06:42 AM

I think hes talking about the chance the implantation process fails, it festers, and you die.

I don't think any GM would actually force that on a player, unless that player was getting aid from another player to do the medicae check, and/or the procedure was being done in an improper facility and the player was specifically warned that they may very well die from this.



#5 signoftheserpent

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 07:03 AM

That's not going to happen during character creation anyway. Even during play most GM's would never kill of a character in that fashion so really that's a pretty ill conceived rule.

But the Augur Array implant needs clarification. Why bother having a rule to activate it when you can just activate it before combat or the action starts and just leave it on without penalty. Then you gain huge bonuses, especially with good craftsmanship.

 



#6 vogue69

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 07:07 AM

also a specific disadvantage: you will get fatigued in a haywire field. doesn't happen too often, but if it does it sucks.



#7 signoftheserpent

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 07:20 AM

Why? There's nothing in the rules that says an Aurgur Array is affected by any such thing.



#8 KommissarK

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 07:27 AM

Haywire fields cause anyone with cybernetics to take penalties (its not always fatigue, but its not pretty).



#9 signoftheserpent

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 08:04 AM

That will apply to anyone with cybernetics, regardless of whether they have augur arrays or whether or not they are activated.

The question still remains: how are these implants really meant to work.



#10 KommissarK

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 08:26 AM

"In all cases, their use requires concentration and a Half Action"

Any turn you wish to benefit from it, you're spending a half action. Half your speed in narritive movement, since you're busy. Hard to use in combat. Possible to be distracted.

Otherwise, yes, its +20 to awareness base, and functions like a tricorder if the Tech Use test is succeeded.

Tech Use, by its description, is 1 minute base to use, or longer in "more complex systems"

That answer your question?

 

At least it makes more sense than an Optical Mechadendrite.

+10 to all Perception based tests.

Sees in the dark.

+20 bonus to vision based perception tests at night.

 

It actually sees better in the dark, even though it is basically a camera on a robotic tentacle.



#11 signoftheserpent

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 08:44 AM

KommissarK said:

"In all cases, their use requires concentration and a Half Action"

Any turn you wish to benefit from it, you're spending a half action. Half your speed in narritive movement, since you're busy. Hard to use in combat. Possible to be distracted.

Otherwise, yes, its +20 to awareness base, and functions like a tricorder if the Tech Use test is succeeded.

Tech Use, by its description, is 1 minute base to use, or longer in "more complex systems"

That answer your question?

 

At least it makes more sense than an Optical Mechadendrite.

+10 to all Perception based tests.

Sees in the dark.

+20 bonus to vision based perception tests at night.

 

It actually sees better in the dark, even though it is basically a camera on a robotic tentacle.

You've lost me here.

The auspex device doesn't say anything about needing an action/half action to use.

The use of awareness and tech use seem to cancel each other out.

If each use of an augur implant requires a half action, then it can't be used in a reactionary capacity, eg using Awareness (with the bonus) as a motion tracker of sorts (ie, switch it on and wait to see if something comes into range). That is, both Tech Use and Awareness serve the same function: both are used by the auspex to detect things.

This is where i'm completely confused. Tech Use and Awareness seem to do the same thing when using your auspex. It seems to be solely an active function, which makes awareness rather redundant, but the good craftmanship benefit (reroll perception tests while active) seems then to only work for the awareness skill, not Tech use which is likley to be much higher because only Tech type characters are going to have cybernetics. Why say you can reroll perception skills when the only skill you can reroll is Awareness because the auspex doesn't remain active.



#12 KommissarK

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 09:42 AM

The implant itself takes concentration. "In all cases, their use requires concentration and a Half Action." I'm not 100% if that actually should be a half action each turn, but it should be distracting (I'd limit them to half actions in combat if they intend to use it).

It otherwise functions as an auspex when actually in use.

Good quality allows re-rolls on all perception based tests "when using its functions" (I read that as meaning when I do anything perception related and have the device active).

Note this means rerolls on scrutiny, which is also quite helpful. Theoretically on psynisciance as well, but thats debatable.

 

As far as the auspex functionality goes:

Just by using it in a barebones fashion, the user has +20 awareness. Therefore, those with the implant, when using the half action to activate it it, also have a +20 to awareness (I might be open to removing the notion of having to constantly use a half action. Honestly I see no issue with the loss of an action type, they took the time to get the thing implanted).

The Tech Use test is a highly specific feature, and is indeed the "motion tracker" effect you mention. By making that test, the user can suddenly percieve things out of their normal range of perception (through surfaces, etc.).

Good quality increases the awareness bonus.

The device has a 50m range.

The thing to know is an auspex has two distinct uses:

1. +20 to Awareness tests

2. Make a Tech Use test to get a detailed "reading" of the area

Someone untrained in Tech Use can still use the device.

It sounds like you're confusing those two as the same thing. Using an auspex to get the +20 bonus doesn't necessarily give you the "motion tracker" view of things.



#13 signoftheserpent

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 08:45 PM

I don't think that's right either.

I suspect, though it isn't clear, that each use of an augur implant requires a half action and that it cannot be left running. The problem is the mixing of Awareness and Tech Use. The implant, like the device equivalent, should only require Tech Use - it is a piece of equipment after all. The efficacy of the use of a augur shouldn't depend on the user's perception. That's nonsensical. I'm guessing that Awareness is used when the implant/device is intended to detect something the user's conventional senses could detect (that's a little surreal), whereas Tech Use is for extrasensory detection, such as IR or EM spectrum - although the rules don't define these or give any advice as to what could be detected in such a way.

The Augur/Auspex is a confused set of rules. How do you know whether to make Awareness or Tech Use? How do you know which detection method you want to use? Presumably each action undertaken allows one detection attempt (and 1 skill roll) and thus one single detection method: eg do you use IR or straightforward optical detection (ie Awareness)? But wouldn't this mean that you would always use Tech Use? Even if something can't be detected in, say IR, you would shift to another extrasensory mode of which there could conceivably be an endless array (again the rules do not define).

Also the Auspex device dosn't seem to rquire an action at all. That can't be right, but according to the rules as written, the auspex doesn't say that it requires a free/half/full action. The use of a skill entry in the combat section (as an action) says that the length of time varies as depends on the action. So which is it?



#14 KommissarK

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 02:46 AM

There is no mixing of Tech Use and Awareness with an Auspex.

It serves 2 functions:

1. When using it in a simple fashion, it provides a +20 Awareness bonus. There is no need for a Tech Use test. As this is Awareness, it is a free action to use (as long as the Auspex is readily in use)

2. When used in an advanced fashion, it takes a Tech Use test, but is otherwise able to pinpoint exact features about the area (material composition, presence of life, power signatures, etc.), up to about 50m, and a maximum of 50cm worth of material. This can be a minute or more in its use (Tech Use usually takes a minute or more).

The Auger Implant simply builds one of these into your head, and takes a bit of concentration to activate (instead of having to hold one in your hand).

 






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