Jump to content



Photo

Support Specialists Home Worlds


  • Please log in to reply
14 replies to this topic

#1 Jenk

Jenk

    Member

  • Members
  • 12 posts

Posted 04 July 2012 - 08:36 AM

Hi Guys,

I was reading over character creation and I believe there is a spot where it could be improved.

I rather dislike the idea that “Support Specialists” use the same Homeworld as the rest of the Regiment. Would it not make more sense to allow the Specialists to pick their own Homeworld?

The regiment creation point discrepancy for Homeworlds makes allowing free pick of Homeworlds problematic. E.g. Regiment from an Imperial World costs 1 point, and allowing the Commissar to take Schola Progenium would be a net surplus of 2 points over everyone else playing, thus unbalanced.

My current house rule is to simply allow Specialists to take whatever Homeworld they choose (perhaps strongly recommend Schola Progenium for Storm Trooper and Commissar) and then attempt to remove a bonus from the Doctrines or Commanding Officer until the total regimental cost points are equal among everyone.

A simpler solution would be to equalize the Homeworlds so they are all worth 3 points, allowing for fair flow between.

Another Option would be removing Homeworld bonuses entirely from Specialists and building in a particular Homeworld into each Specialist. E.g. Toxic/Heavy-G Orgyn World. These bonuses might be roughly in the realm of 2 points as to make them roughly even with the Regimental Homeworlds.

Thoughts?
 



#2 LuciusT

LuciusT

    Member

  • Members
  • 911 posts

Posted 04 July 2012 - 08:59 AM

 I have a similar concern. My players were testing out the character creation rules last night and wouldn't make Support Specialists "because they have to be from a different Regiment." I think they might have the right of it. I think we need some clarifications on "mixed regiment" forces.

Commissars and Storm Troopers absolutely need to come from their own Schola Progenium Storm Trooper regiment (in fact the background for Storm Troopers say as much). I've suggested that they actually include this as one of the "pre-made" Regiments in the book.

Sanctioned Psykers might be less  of problem, even if they come from a different world than the regiment they might come from the same "type" of world so it need not be an issue… just because they are from Necromunda instead of Scintillia, they're still from a Hive World and would get the same basic stats.

Orgyn and Ratlings could come from the same homeworld as the rest of the regiment. You just have to accept that those abhuman breeds have a population on that planet.

Priests and Tech Priests aren't an issue, IMO, as they would reasonably be drawn from the local population. 



#3 MILLANDSON

MILLANDSON

    Playtester

  • Members
  • 3,356 posts

Posted 04 July 2012 - 02:21 PM

I'd personally, just for Commissars and Storm Troopers, change the Homeworld to Schola Progenium, and then use the rest of the Regiment as chosen by the rest of the squad. It'd essentially show that they come from different origins, but have become somewhat trained in the manner of war that their regimental charges use.


~Yea, Tho I Walk Through The Valley Of The Shadow Of Death, I Shall Fear No Evil~

 

Posts/views/opinions are in no way representative of FFG, and are entirely my own.


#4 Alox

Alox

    Member

  • Members
  • 284 posts

Posted 05 July 2012 - 09:34 PM

I am also in favor of balancing the home world choices to equal costs or find some other way to make it easier to differentiate character backgrounds before joining the regiment.

 



#5 Kasatka

Kasatka

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,062 posts

Posted 06 July 2012 - 02:32 AM

I think people have the wrong end of the stick - support specialists are attached to a regiment yes, but they have to acclimatise themselves to their regiment's favoured fighting styles, terrain, equipment etc to the point that they effectively get all of the same training and bonuses from the Homeworld.


Only the insane have strength enough to prosper.

Only those that prosper may truly judge what is sane.


#6 LuciusT

LuciusT

    Member

  • Members
  • 911 posts

Posted 06 July 2012 - 03:26 AM

Kasatka said:

I think people have the wrong end of the stick - support specialists are attached to a regiment yes, but they have to acclimatise themselves to their regiment's favoured fighting styles, terrain, equipment etc to the point that they effectively get all of the same training and bonuses from the Homeworld.

Well, that's the apologist arguement, but I don't buy it. This a Beta Test, a chance to question the rules. In this case the rules don't match the background… so either the rules or the background needs to be changed.



#7 DJSunhammer

DJSunhammer

    Member

  • Members
  • 603 posts

Posted 06 July 2012 - 07:44 PM

LuciusT said:

Kasatka said:

 

I think people have the wrong end of the stick - support specialists are attached to a regiment yes, but they have to acclimatise themselves to their regiment's favoured fighting styles, terrain, equipment etc to the point that they effectively get all of the same training and bonuses from the Homeworld.

 

 

Well, that's the apologist arguement, but I don't buy it. This a Beta Test, a chance to question the rules. In this case the rules don't match the background… so either the rules or the background needs to be changed.

It can also be argued that FFG doesn't want to over complicate the character creation process for people that choose something that falls under Support Specialist. There is also page count to consider.



#8 HTMC

HTMC

    Member

  • Members
  • 153 posts

Posted 06 July 2012 - 08:08 PM

LuciusT said:

Kasatka said:

 

I think people have the wrong end of the stick - support specialists are attached to a regiment yes, but they have to acclimatise themselves to their regiment's favoured fighting styles, terrain, equipment etc to the point that they effectively get all of the same training and bonuses from the Homeworld.

 

 

Well, that's the apologist arguement, but I don't buy it. This a Beta Test, a chance to question the rules. In this case the rules don't match the background… so either the rules or the background needs to be changed.

 

I don't think it's an "apologist argument," I think it's a very valid viewpoint. As Kasatka suggests, it's not like Support Specialists just recently joined the Regiment 5 days prior to campaign start, I think it's assumed they've been working with the regiment for quite some time, so it makes sense that these specialists have blended in with their companions.

If you want a fluff example, look at the popular Gaunt's Ghosts series: Gaunt himself is a native Tanith, yet he acquires the skills to be as good at stealth and recon as any of the Tanith grunts, because he learns from his soldiers and adapts to their fighting style. If we were to transfer this to mechanical rules, despite being from a different "homeworld" originally, at this point he'd probably have the same stat bonuses as if he were from Tanith. 

I definitely agree that you should be questioning the rules, but I don't think the rules don't match the background. I think it works perfectly fine. Sure you can think of situations where it doesn't make sense, but that's the case with ALL rules: you can always find exceptions. As a general rule, I think it works to have homeworlds be uniform. They are supposed to be a single fighting unit, after all, not a bunch of random individuals thrown together. 



#9 DJSunhammer

DJSunhammer

    Member

  • Members
  • 603 posts

Posted 06 July 2012 - 08:13 PM

Gaunt wasn't a native Tanith, he was from the world Manzipar. Normally I wouldn't correct you, but it is an important point of your argument.



#10 LuciusT

LuciusT

    Member

  • Members
  • 911 posts

Posted 07 July 2012 - 01:07 AM

DJSunhammer said:

Gaunt wasn't a native Tanith, he was from the world Manzipar. Normally I wouldn't correct you, but it is an important point of your argument.

It's worth noting that Gaunt is an exceptional individual… far from a run of the mill Imperial Guard officer. He also served with the Tanith First for some time before "going native."  His adaptation to his adopted regiment could just as easily be attributed to him spending experience points on the appropriate advances.

I guess it really depends on how we define the starting characters in terms of their prior experience. Are they meant to be raw recruits on their first deployment or experienced Guardsmen dropping into yet another hot battlezone.



#11 HTMC

HTMC

    Member

  • Members
  • 153 posts

Posted 07 July 2012 - 11:40 AM

DJSunhammer said:

Gaunt wasn't a native Tanith, he was from the world Manzipar. Normally I wouldn't correct you, but it is an important point of your argument.

Thanks for the catch, as you probably realized it was a really unfortunate typo >_<. It seems like there's no way to go back and edit a post after it's been up for a while, unfortunately.

 

@LuciusT: The exceptional nature of Gaunt is definitely a good point. My understanding, though, is like most PCs in RPGs, the PCs in OW are supposed to be exceptional individuals, and veterans of at least a couple battles even when they're at starting level in terms of XP. Comrades to my understanding represent the green, fresh-off-the-dropship raw recruits. This is more from my general reading that anything concrete, but the one line I could find on a quick skim to support this is from page 38, which describes the PCs as a "cut above the average Guardsmen."



#12 Alox

Alox

    Member

  • Members
  • 284 posts

Posted 09 July 2012 - 08:54 PM

I think it is fair to let specialist come from another home world than where the regiment was founded.

The specialist gets all the other aspects of the regiment, so the specialist are indeed "going native". They just have a slightly different background.

It is quite easy to house rule it, so it is not like it is the end of the world if changing home world is not an option in the RAW rules. But if a lot of players actually wants to do it, maybe make an optional "grey box" rule on how to balance different home worlds?

 



#13 Cifer

Cifer

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,792 posts

Posted 09 July 2012 - 11:37 PM

@HTMC

Just click on the "Report to the moderator" button, then manually change the url from …reportar… to …editar…

(The fact that this is possible speaks volumes about the forum software's quality - but then again, so does the frequent need for an edit button because you've once again broke the formatting.)

 

@Topic

I'd prefer having certain supporters come from their own homeworld (Schola Progenium, mostly), but I can live with the present rules.



#14 LuciusT

LuciusT

    Member

  • Members
  • 911 posts

Posted 10 July 2012 - 12:02 AM

HTMC said:

 

@LuciusT: The exceptional nature of Gaunt is definitely a good point. My understanding, though, is like most PCs in RPGs, the PCs in OW are supposed to be exceptional individuals, and veterans of at least a couple battles even when they're at starting level in terms of XP. Comrades to my understanding represent the green, fresh-off-the-dropship raw recruits. This is more from my general reading that anything concrete, but the one line I could find on a quick skim to support this is from page 38, which describes the PCs as a "cut above the average Guardsmen."

 

 

See the responses to my thread about NPC profiles for lengthy arguements by others that not only are PCs not veterans, they are a cut below average Guardsmen and everyone but me likes it that way. Frankly, I'm disgusted with the whole thing at this point.



#15 DJSunhammer

DJSunhammer

    Member

  • Members
  • 603 posts

Posted 10 July 2012 - 02:15 AM

They seem, if not veteran guardsmen, then ones that are blooded. This is apparent when you compare them to DH characters, who start with almost nothing in the way of anything important. NPC statlines may be wonky in comparison to starting characters, but that doesn't mean starting characters are weak. I also think that the NPC profiles for the guardsmen aren't supposed to represent mooks, but units that are true veterans. An example of this can be found in the included adventure. The Bretonian Longknives that have been on the planet for several years use those stats, and it more than likely fits them perfectly. More than that, who says you have to use those particular statlines for NPCs in your game? You can very easily make them weaker. Just reduce their stats by 5-10, and remove talents and skills you don't want them to have. Don't try to give me any lip either, a GM is expected to put a degree of effort into making his game believable.






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS