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Feedback for my custom space marine chapter for my custom sector


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#1 Ubernatus

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 11:39 PM

Still in its infant stage, i want to hear your opinions.

Raven Host(name can be changed later)

A Blood Angels descendant chapter formed almost 6000 years ago in the planet of Moros. Since it's birth it's geneseed mutated and changed. First Omophagea gene changed so that the one who possess it must feed blood regularly. It's Progenoids are no longer functioning so a new Space Marine cannot be created by regular means. But the chapter's blood priests found method for creating new members. Blood of the marines with a special ritual can create a ''fledgling'' These individuals can only be changed to a Marine after a 100+ year of living as the blood of the Raven Host changes the fledgling to a degree that the body of the host accept the other implants. And finally it has been found that the this method can only be used individuals who has a connection with the Warp (psykers, wyrds etc.) and finally the geneseed blood turns the fledling's mind to a degree that a hungery ravaging bestial side appears (similar to Vampire The Masquerade/Requiem) (i will be giving logical and mystical explanations to this later)

Chapter's organization

High Council: 7 High Priests of Blood who rules the Chapter. The Chapter has 7 Companies and each High Priest leads one.

Blood Priests: Each High Priest has a retinue of 7 Blood Priests who aids rituals and oversees Dukes

Dukes: Almost all of the high population and important planets of Aetherian Sector has these individuals. Covered in darkness, these individuals rules Raven Host fledgling populations of planets.

Barons: These individuals working under Dukes rules continents and sections of cities. There are some shadow wars between these individuals to gain control of resources etc.

Fledgling: These are the masses that the blood of Raven Hosts given but not transformed in to a marine yet. These ''vampires'' can be found in many corners of the cities. Some of them have strong positions in cities

Chapter Doctrine

Simple, ''we don't exist'' There is a masquerade game going and no one ever knows about this chapter(maybe the most influenced Inquisiton or Adepta members knows about this chapter). Even Moros itself erased from records and no warp route has been drawn to there. The Chapter uses stealth operations instead of open warfare (They mostly does their duty by ''operating from shadows'' and using their fledgling pawns) and Terminators, Devastators, Scouts, Chaplains and Librarians does not exist. All these duties are covered by Blood Priests. As a Chapter full of psykers they will have specific rituals and psychic powers.

That's all for now as you can guess i was a fan of Vampire The Masquerade until i met Warhammer 40000 :D And i said 'why not put all these together?''

Any opinion and feedback ( common sense or going too opposite to fluff/canon etc. ) are welcome!

 



#2 Plushy

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 05:31 AM

 Progenoids are kind of key to the physiology of an Astartes. A mutation that severe, combined with arcane blood rituals… expect an unfriendly visit from the Ordo Hereticus very soon. Also, having every Marine also be a psyker is pretty not-okay going by fluff. Codex demands that all of them must be Librarians, and Imperial law requires them to all get sanctioned. Completely disregarding the Codex (ignoring all organization) is pretty much only done by the Space Wolves, and they have a nasty reputation for fighting the Inquisition over it.

 

These guys would be branded both mutant and witch instantly. If the Inquisition doesn't wipe them out, the Black Templars would. I suggest you rethink them; as they stand, they sound more like a strange assassin cult or perhaps a Renegade warband.


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My apologies to anyone I offend; FFG staff, playtesters, and forum users alike. 

 

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#3 DailyDose

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 06:11 AM

 I'm going to have to side with Plushy, here. It's an interesting idea, but it just seems to go too heavily against so many tenets of the 40k universe. Definitely seems more like a Chaos legion than a Space Marine chapter. That said, if the "vampire" side were a little less extreme, I think it would be a compelling Blood Angels successor chapter. 



#4 Penpen

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 11:26 PM

While I agree with previous posters…. there is definetly potential for using them. Say that the Kill-Team discovers these hidden, but utterly loyal warriors during a mission and receives help from them. Perhaps cooperation is vital to complete the mission. Does the kill-team accept the aid? Dp they report them to the inquisition? What will the consequences be if they do or don't?



#5 Ubernatus

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:14 AM

DailyDose said:

�I'm going to have to side with Plushy, here. It's an interesting idea, but it just seems to go too heavily against so many tenets of the 40k universe. Definitely seems more like a Chaos legion than a Space Marine chapter. That said, if the "vampire" side were a little less extreme, I think it would be a compelling Blood Angels successor chapter.�

tenets of 40k? Hmm i dont really think of tenets in a universe like 40 k. Its very free formed, creativity friendly universe in my opinion. The inquisition will pose a problem here maybe but do all inquisition should act the same? Maybe they see a profit from this chapter. Maybethe chapter is too secretive that it cannot be found… And for the previous post, grey knights chapter is formed of all psykers. Black templars doesn t follow the codex properly and if those arent enough thereare the space wolves. A chapter fully gone deep into their own beliefs and a chapter almost wholly denied codex astartes and dont forget its a universe where two primarchs stays unknown and unexplained just to support tou to invent your own chapters:) (same can be said for all races and factions of 40k)

#6 FieserMoep

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 01:05 PM

The fact that their progenois are not working is dooming this chapter for many reasons.

#1 The Progenoids are the legacy of the emperor and the primarch, they are the most holy thing a Chapter has. There is no chapter without it. And the process you discribe with the blood rituals is pretty much covered by mutation.

#2 There are far to many psykers and with the masquerade thing they are all unsanctioned. So every individual Marine acts against one of the most important laws of the entire imperium. Warp related mutants that call themself Astartes? Oh dear… I can hear the wrath of the Black Templars form here.

#3 They are not loyal to the codex. This is a privileg only of those chapters that have proven their loyalty over thousands of years with a well writen and known history. Even now the Inquisition keeps an eye on these chapters but as mentioned before they are not allowed to do what they do, they are tolerated. And this will never happen to this heretical chapter, even if they could had out a record of 6.000 years of loyal service nobody can validate.

#4 Without the progenoids they can not fullfill a ritual every chapter has to fullfill. It is the duty of every Chapter to send samples of his geneseed to mars so they can be controled and checked for mutations. You wonder why? Because this is one of the rules to be sure a chapter is not slowly tunring into a mutated mess of chaos worshipers. Now gues what they think of a chaper that cant even send this samples… because they already lost them?

#5 All their special Ranks are organized into the "Blood Priests". There is a reason why Chaplains exist and more important there is a reason why they are not Librarians. So this chapters basicaly has no anti-corruption bad-ass-priesthood. Just some Librarian (Unsanctioned ones) that guide other Librarians (unsanctioned ones too) on the paths of faith.

 

This order is doomend to become exterminated or the personal b*tch of a radical inquisitor that is on the brink of getting traitoris status.

 

And no, WH40k is no "free" universe. Its fluff creates some very harsh rules though it gives you a lot of freedom to act in this kind of rules as it is needed to field a personalized tabletop army. But even then a lot of players create their own WH40k fluff, something that is completly okay, though they can not expect others to view their creations as fitting into the fluff.

About your arguments. No, not every Inquisitors act the same but they all have the same goal… somewhat. Every balanced or puritan inquisitor will instantly declare this chapter excuminicate hereticus and even lots of radical inquisitors are not crazy enough to use corrpupted warriors(and nothing else they are) of the god-emperor. Only the most radical ones would use this kind of chapter as long as it would be usefull for them. But in alliance with such an inquisitor the end of the chapter is iminent, kust a matter or time.

And yes, the Grey Knights are an all-pksyer chapter. But let me explain that. The grey knights were founded on direct order of the emperor, some of his lasts words before he entered the golden throne. They were created at the same time the inquisiton was, and they were founded as the dedicated military arm of the inquisition agains the warp. Their gene-seed originated not from a prmarch but from the emperor himself. Their first leaders were roughly the most loyal space marines at the time of the horus heresy for they were the few, true loyal members of the traitor legions. Also the grey knights have a incredible history of defeating the chaos forces nobody could ever dream of to match and furthermore not a single knight has ever been corrupted. An achievement no other chapter can dream of. They are the purest warriors of the Imperium and can even prove that.

So we talk about the Black Templars you mentioned. Yes, they are no codex chapter. But their zeal is without match among the other "ordinary" astartes chapters. But take one think into account: They are on a crusade that lasts over 10.000 years now to prove their loyalty. There is no peace time in the live of a Templar, there is only the Prayer before the next battle. On the other Hand space wolfes are some kind of "special". They have the own way of doing their stuff but as much as you can say they break some laws they are doing the most hazardous battles for the imperium. There is no doubt about their loyalty to the emperor, only about their loyalty to the servant of the emperor. And as long as they do their duty, and do it well. This can be tolerated. They have a honor record that is suitable for one of the former legions. They have achieved so much that they can not be "banned". And they will achieve much more, because they have shown so.

 

My Black Templar Champion PC would kill such a "Space Marine" on sight  if he would know of them. And his kill-team would gladly join the fight. This chapters fullfills 80% of all requirements to be considered heretical. The other 20% are openly shouting the warcries of the dark gods though.



#7 Ubernatus

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:03 PM

So i see. When fantasy flight games or even games workshop changes or ruins entire fluff blocks that is completely ok but when an individual creates his oen fluff it ''goes wrong with the harsh rules of the universe'' very interesting… So tell me blood angels co-working with necrons are ok but a chapter hides its presence from the inquisition or maybe working with some radical inquisitors are not ok… You are very quick to brand them as heretics… As you accept the fluff 40 k unquestioning im telling you that no they are not heretics. And btw tell me please which harsh rules are you talking about? Name one and ill give you a logical explanation and a sample from the universe:) and instead of flaming and harrasing me aggresively realize that it is a fantasy realm soo anything goes:)

#8 Ubernatus

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 12:45 AM

And instead of branding them heretics you could have given some positive feedback to make them work( i would do that if i was asked of such thing ) perhaps they need a sanctioning rite perhaps they need some harsh anti-taint check mechanism.

#9 FieserMoep

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:07 AM

No, I am not okay with some fluff-**** produces by GW, but the difference is they are the inventors of the WH40k Fluff. What they do is official. You might like it or not, but this is how a sci-fi universe works. If tolkien had put some Mechas in his Books it would be that way. But if someone else said here are Mechas in Middleearth it is fan-fic.

You can invent what ever you want, but by breaking the in-game fluff rules you can not expect others to accept it as a possible part of the Fluff. So Blood Angels and Necrons are okay, we have to deal with that. But that does not mean that from this point we can accept any "strange" Ideas. One Bad desicion by the Game Designer does not "justify" or explaines another one by fan fiction.

And if I "would" be an Inquisiitor those Blood Angels, working with Necrons, would be seen as heretics. Thats how I am thinking, though the circumstances were different in the background as discribed. There are a lot of things I do not like, but this is no carte blanche fpr everything else.

And about these Harsh rules, just take a look at #1-5, start with them. They are all fluff limitations. And no, there is no positive feedback, to demand such is nonsense. It was feedback that clearly shows why your Idea does not work as a part of the fluff, as long as you dont make a fan-fic out of it. It is not my job to "fix" your chapter. The point that they use mutation instead of geneseed to create new astartes is aboslute heretical. And with absolute I mean there is no excuse for that. Abd then they are all psykers…

What would you think of 1.000 corrupted and mutated marines that are all unsanctioned psykers and possible hosts for deamons? A Chapter that hides from the Inquisition, does not follow the rules of the codex, has no chaplains and uses blood rituals? Furthermore there are shadow wars between the Marines of this Chapter and they have actively control over the planet. Also I wonder what it is about the Black Rage or Red Thirst?



#10 Ubernatus

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 05:56 AM

Maybe you are right. It's their universe after all. But i don't like to do things that as they should be… I like inventing, sometimes to the extreme and i thought Warhammer 40k has a lot potential to be creative within. Perhaps i'm wrong about this.. Sorry if i have been rude didn't mean it



#11 FieserMoep

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 07:33 AM

Well, you can be creative with WH40k, though it is kinda strict about how a Regiment or Astartes Chapter should look like. Though as a GM it is your game and your interpretation of the Fluff. You can create such a chapter, there is no problem about, but you should explain to your players how you handel the official fluff. And sorry when I sounded kinda harsh but this was placed here for feedback and when I stick to the Fluff as GW published it there are a few points to argue about.^^



#12 Ubernatus

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 09:02 AM

Cheers then :) I will rethink my chapter and update it when i m done. 






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