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a TRUE worlds event


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#1 COCLCG

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 06:46 PM

just throwing this pipe dream out there, as i'm pretty sure it would never happen.

 

imagine an internet based tournament, that everyone could partake in, that could actually be deemed a true worlds event, instead of the farcicle audacity of simply naming someone 'world champion' because they could afford to make it to a physical event in a pre determined country, and had the best deck and luck on the day ( although this applies to any game really ). i certainly pay no homage / respect to someone who's never even played me, let alone beaten me, so why such a prestigious title ??

i'm sure the technology exists and wouldn't be that hard to implement, and with an entry fee into the site for registration, would be an absolute gold mine for its creator. i'd definately stay up all night to take part, and if it happened to run over an entire weekend then i'd do that too!! of course mini internet tournaments like the regionals could bring it to a managable level. the best part is, anyone with a computer could take part, physical decks or not !!

what a wonderful world we COULD be living in…………
 



#2 ssjevot

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 08:49 PM

Personally I think the competitive scene could benefit from having best 2 out of 3 at these tournaments for the top 4.  I think it favors luck a little too much in the current format (as you pointed out).  However I've never played in a tournament, I'm just basing this off of many years playing Magic.  I also find the lack of a sideboard a little strange, as this greatly increased the strategy involved in Magic.

That said since my brother lives in Minneapolis I'll try to go to Worlds, but I think an online tournament like you're proposing would be great.  I just don't think it would be easy to organize due to the lack of a commonly used client for playing online and trying to contact all the communities.  The only way it would really work is if FFG supported it.  It may be better to try to focus on making the current competitive scene the best it can possibly be to attract more players.  More players could eventually lead to the type of scene Magic enjoys (including an official online game client).



#3 COCLCG

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 09:29 PM

ssjevot said:

The only way it would really work is if FFG supported it.

 

haha. that was the hint…….



#4 Hellfury

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 04:52 AM

It would be great to have an online play mechanism. But FFG are not likely to make one, IMO.

I used to play a lot of M:tG and my online (MTGO) collection nearly rivaled my IRL collection. Online is a great way to play and about the only way that WotC can afford to make such a wonderful program is due to the addictive blind buy quality that they charge for an electronic pack of cards.

It wouldn't be as profitable as the physical product for FFG. Because it is a new set up that would have to be constantly maintained to sort bugs out.

FFG would never recognize Lackey/OCTGN officially to be used as such tournament as they seem to only tolerate it. No offense to the creators of those, but  the interface on those programs are quite poor. I wouldn't want those representing my products either if I were FFG.

Not trying to be a debbie downer about it, just realistic.



#5 dboeren

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 03:41 AM

Hellfury said:

FFG would never recognize Lackey/OCTGN officially to be used as such tournament as they seem to only tolerate it. No offense to the creators of those, but  the interface on those programs are quite poor. I wouldn't want those representing my products either if I were FFG.

+1 to that, these programs are really annoying to learn due to the horrible interfaces.  Plus, OCTGN fails to run too often on different platforms.



#6 Penfold

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 10:01 AM

Sideboards are good for strategy in a game where there is almost no strategy once the game has begun at the higher levels.

Without a sideboard you have to create a more balanced deck that can take on all comers or so tightly focused that you can get your win before your opponent can set up a proper offense or defense, recognizing that doing so means you may get rolled by a deck that can exploit your weakness.

The lack of a sideboard makes the metagame more dynamic since you cannot include an answer to all problematic deck match ups.

Of course a very strong argument can be made about sideboards allowing for this or that (some of which you have already touched on), what it boils down to is both formats have positives and negatives and it would be a bad thing, in my own opinion, if every card game followed the exact same format.

Regarding the best 2 out of 3, it depends on how you look at it. The whole point of swiss pairings is for the numerous games to have the best players running the strongest decks to rise to the top.Honestly in a 2:3 scenario you shouldn't really be running swiss you should be running single elimination brackets, or at least double elimination with some sort of wild card.

Anyone, the idea of a online tournament with players from around the world participating is not new. They do it in AGoT, but it is not supported by FFG either.

They are a table top gaming company who has just recently been getting into phone and tablet apps. I can't imagine them stepping outside of this to develop a fully functional online version of a niche card game. I think there is a greater possibility of a CoC app than of a computerized version like Magic Online. Don't get me wrong, it would be awesome, but I try to not get to excited about a thing that is almost certainly never going to happen in my life time.



#7 Runix

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 05:49 AM

Hellfury said:

It would be great to have an online play mechanism. But FFG are not likely to make one, IMO.

I used to play a lot of M:tG and my online (MTGO) collection nearly rivaled my IRL collection. Online is a great way to play and about the only way that WotC can afford to make such a wonderful program is due to the addictive blind buy quality that they charge for an electronic pack of cards.

It wouldn't be as profitable as the physical product for FFG. Because it is a new set up that would have to be constantly maintained to sort bugs out.

FFG would never recognize Lackey/OCTGN officially to be used as such tournament as they seem to only tolerate it. No offense to the creators of those, but  the interface on those programs are quite poor. I wouldn't want those representing my products either if I were FFG.

Not trying to be a debbie downer about it, just realistic.

This is a rare case where it would be in everybody's best interest for the companies involved to pool their resources and invest in a common client that would allow participating companies a secure way of rolling out digital versions of their games.  Wizards, obviously, has such a thing, but it's woefully deficient (ugly and clunky, though not as bad as the freeware clients), but even they could potentially benefit by sharing costs with other companies like FFG that could use a digital platform.  A common client would cut costs and ease deployment of digital CCGs/LCGs, while making it easier for players to maintain multiple games, so it could potentially be a win for everyone.

I have no illusions about how difficult it would be to convince game company executives to invest in such a thing - but there are some independent developers working on full-featured platforms that could possibly be marketed to the companies as a low-risk way of rolling out digital games.  But companies in an industry joining together to invest in a common format has been done before, and to great success - e.g., the DVD format, which was developed by a consortium of tech companies.



#8 Runix

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 05:51 AM

To reply to the original post, a good starting point would be a set time for getting together to play Lackey or Octagon.  Both clients aren't the ideal way to play, but they're good enough for playing out decks against a variety of opponents as a preparation for real face-to-face play.  If we could designate a day and a time to be available on Lackey, I would be up for it depending on my schedule.



#9 Magnus Arcanis

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 09:55 AM

COCLCG said:

just throwing this pipe dream out there, as i'm pretty sure it would never happen.

 

imagine an internet based tournament, that everyone could partake in, that could actually be deemed a true worlds event, instead of the farcicle audacity of simply naming someone 'world champion' because they could afford to make it to a physical event in a pre determined country, and had the best deck and luck on the day ( although this applies to any game really ). i certainly pay no homage / respect to someone who's never even played me, let alone beaten me, so why such a prestigious title ??

i'm sure the technology exists and wouldn't be that hard to implement, and with an entry fee into the site for registration, would be an absolute gold mine for its creator. i'd definately stay up all night to take part, and if it happened to run over an entire weekend then i'd do that too!! of course mini internet tournaments like the regionals could bring it to a managable level. the best part is, anyone with a computer could take part, physical decks or not !!

what a wonderful world we COULD be living in…………
 

I support internet tournaments. But I can't help but feel you might be taking this whole "World Championship" in the wrong light.

Of course, FFG and other people may have a different opinion on this, but the reason why someone is given the "prestigious title" of World Champion is because that person won the tournament that awarded that as it's prize. 

In the hieracrchy of tournmanets. You have regional tournaments that are usually restricted to participants of that region (FFG wasn't/isn't exactly to strict on this). Then you have national tournaments that are usually restricted to people of that nation (FFG was/is more strict on this). Then you have the world championship that has unrestricted access. It doesn't matter what region/country you come from you are allowed to go and compete for the title. That's what makes it a world championship and why the title is given.

Now, if FFG made it an invite-only event, I would agree with you 100%. But they didn't so, the only thing stopping a person from competing in the tournament would be that person.

Granted, not all things are equal. Some people will have to dedicate more time and money than others. FFG is attempting to alleviate some of that by coordinating with some of countries where the game is more popular to get more non-local players to attend. While I'm not a fan of the move to November, I applaud them for trying to do more.

Side note, in the past there has always been some non-local players including one from Australia back in 2009 if my memory serves me correctly. :)

Besides it's near impossible to have an absolute World Tournmanet. Even with an online program. Someone is always gonna get the short end of the stick. Be it by a person's schedule, time zone, internet connection, computer, etc…

Not to mention you miss out on the physical presence of actually being there. Far more exciting in person than through a computer screen.

As for as Australia getting a short end of the stick… ya it sucks. No disagreement there. However, if your community continues to grow I certainly see no reason you can't lobby for next year to have your own national championship!

Anyway, I hope that better explains things for you and helps alleviates some fustrations. I like you COCLCG, not sure what all happened in the past few weeks, but glad to see you're coming around. Hopefully one day we'll see you at the big event! Till then, keep on keepin on. :)



#10 KrissS666

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 08:25 PM

"but the interface on those programs are quite poor. I wouldn't want those representing my products either if I were FFG."

While i play online i had in head to improve the ergonomy.

 

Hellfury, let's try my plugging and help to make it more interesting to play : http://www.cardgamed...ing-coc-online/

Lackey is a good freeware because we can build buttons activating lot of actions in 1 click , like :

Mulligan (or first hand)

1) back all cards from hand to deck

2) shuffle deck

3) draw 8 cards

 

and

Resource

1) exhaust card

2) make it to not ready at refresh phase

 

I made several online  tournament but it was (for most) a half good because lack of players (lot don't want to play online…)

 

Tragic told me about a site to make own online tournament, sound good but i don't make test for now, but i will if some players are interested: http://binarybeast.com/xDoW21111180.

We can use lot of formats for online competition :

- 1 shot : 1 day all players are connected and plays game in same time , need vocal server like teamspeak to organize game and room chat.

- tournament : all players match against all : 3 for win, 1 for draw, 0 for lose.After each game, each player has a new  position in the table until the end of the time limit (1 month or more)

- championship : random pool, 1/8 final, 1/4 final, 1/2final, final

- custom tournament: add victory point for the player when he succes to a Challenge (like challenge you won in online game video)
   * Investigation Succes : win a story in 1 attack  => +2 victory points
   * Insane Succes : have in the board 10 characters insanes at any operation phase => +2 victory points
   * Control Succes : steal 10 characters in a game => +5 victory points
   * etc
Those are exemples from a belgium custom ligue (rules are made first by ffg, but challenge was too hard to be won), there are more Succes but i don't know all.
The point is you can failed your game but won point with challenges, so you don't need a "competitive deck", because a thematic deck can compete in this kind of toournament
Each Challenge can be won only 1 time by tournament, but you can won many different Challenge (insane + control for exemple) : +7 victory points to your total points

In all case we need to know your deck list and you are not allowed to change during the online event
We can use swiss round if there are so many players (around 10) to speed up the tournament: swiss round means you play with a player with same (or near) win and lost so you compete with a player with similar skill/powerfull deck. (i have a java freeware to determinate games)
Swiss round avoid player compete only against far strong opponents , so normally there is less frustration for new players.

Ps : don't send me email because i can't update my zip cod so i can't go to my panel :/



#11 Hellfury

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 05:01 AM

KrissS666 said:

 

Hellfury, let's try my [plug-in] and help to make it more interesting to play : http://www.cardgamed...ying-coc-online

 

I am sure the mods you have done are great, but after my initial test to see what it was about, I was not that impressed and do not feel inclined to bother again.

Besides, I have the luxury of many local players now (along with a live-in girlfriend who is fanatic about the game), so the need to go online is next to non-existent.

Good luck with it though and I hope it thrives.



#12 FredhoT

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 10:54 AM

How can you guarantee the online opponent is playing "alone" and not in team? I would feel a little bit upset if I was defeated by 10 players gathered around one computer…

 

othewise, Lackey is not as bad as it seems, except the "qwerty only" text field, which makes the use of the chat rather difficult for players with non-qwerty keyboards… but of course, skype or any VOIP softwares help a lot, provided you can speak english…



#13 KrissS666

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 12:54 AM

It's better with irl teamate, lucky you are Hellfury ^^, my girlfriend like Arkham Horror, but dislike competitive games !

I can't garantee nobody won't use tricks to win, but as it's free and no cash for the winner, if players want to cheat…






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