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When do Bodyguard/Councilor effects resolve?


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#1 Fazhak1

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 05:10 PM

 I am uncertain regarding when non-Spy representative effects resolve during the Assembly II card.

I understand that the rulebook is clear that Bodyguards and Councilors do not resolve immediately upon being revealed. I presume, therefore, that their effects resolve during the "Resolve Votes" step for each player, individually and respectively. For most Bodyguards and Councilors, this makes sense.

However, I'm perplexed by Representatives like the L1z1x Bodyguard and the Sardakk N'orr Bodyguard, because those Representatives' respective abilities could influence whether the Spy who targets them can even vote in the pending referendum at all. If the Spy's player comes before the Bodyguard's player in order to voting, and the we go with the above understanding of the rules (that Bodyguard and Councilor effects resolve when their player gets to his or her own "Resolve Votes" portion of voting), then it is possible that the Spy in question will always get to vote and the Bodyguards' abilities seem lessened.

What do you all think? How do you understand this situation to be properly adjudicated?



#2 Fazhak1

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 08:11 PM

 Any feedback available? We'd really benefit from some guidance, or even just a few new perspectives. Any thoughts?



#3 Fnoffen

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 11:54 PM

Any bodyguard targeted by a spy immediatly triggers his/her effect when revealed. This means that the targeting spy might be killed or simply loose his/her votes this round before voting occurs.

Might mention here that any representative targeted by a spy is immediatley revealed when the targeting spy announces his/her target.

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#4 Fnoffen

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 02:37 AM

 I base my peevious statement on the "Political Intrigue" section of the Shards rulebook. Specifically the Council Steps part (step 2) and the Using Representatives part.


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#5 Fazhak1

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 09:54 AM

 First and foremost, thank you for the reply.

 

Regarding this matter, we used to think the same way as you describe. However, the problem arose when reading the exact section you cited…

 

During "Resolve Spies" in the "Political Intrigue" section of the Shards of the Throne rulebook, the Spy targets another Representative, the latter immediately being revealed. However, "revealed" is not the same as resolved here, as the next thing the rules say is for the -Spy- to resolve its special ability (and mentioned nothing of resolving the targeted Representative). In fact, once all Spies have been revealed and resolved, the rules explicitly state that the other Representatives are revealed… but their effects do not resolve at this time.

 

From Page 12 of that rulebook:

 

"After all Spies are Revealed, all unrevealed Representatives are turned faceup (but their abilities are not resolved at this time)."

 

Hence, the dilemma: when do their effects resolve? Further, since the rules create a difference between "reveal" and "resolve", when should the retributive abilities of the aforementioned Bodyguards take effect?

 

Any additional thoughts? Anyone else have insight into this rather strange difficulty?



#6 Fnoffen

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 08:24 PM

 May I direct your attention towards the Bodyguard paragraph of the "Using representatives" section I mentioned earlier. It states that some bodyguards have effects that are triggered when they are targeted by a spy. I interpret the "when" part as "as soon as" meaning directly. 

If this is an insufficient argumemt, consider the thematic sense it would make that a spy trying to kill a bodyguard with the ability to kill spies that target him. Idon't think the bodyguard would wait that long…
If you're still not convinced, send in a rules query.

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