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Specialist Gear Question


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#1 Asajev

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 06:44 PM

 I just notice that specialist gear gives additional things to the player is this on top of standard issue gear? or similar items like a better quality lasgun replaces the standard issue one?



#2 Morangias

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 05:07 AM

Asajev said:

 I just notice that specialist gear gives additional things to the player is this on top of standard issue gear? or similar items like a better quality lasgun replaces the standard issue one?

The former.


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#3 GalagaGalaxian

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 05:40 AM

And from what I understand you do NOT get free replacements of that equipment, so don't lose it!



#4 Morangias

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 05:51 AM

GalagaGalaxian said:

And from what I understand you do NOT get free replacements of that equipment, so don't lose it!

This appears to be correct. Quite strange, especially for the likes of Storm Troopers and Commissars.


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#5 MajorMurray

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 06:03 AM

Morangias said:

GalagaGalaxian said:

 

And from what I understand you do NOT get free replacements of that equipment, so don't lose it!

 

 

This appears to be correct. Quite strange, especially for the likes of Storm Troopers and Commissars.

Commissar: "Drat, my bolt pistol got torn to bits in that Ork's mouth, oh well. Quartermaster bring me another."

Quartermaster: "Sorry Commissar, we can't bring you another."

Commissar: "What?"

Quartermaster: "Yes sir, it seems we only have one bolt pistol and we have no means to replace it."

Commissar: "You best pray to the Emperor for thanks, because if I had my bolt pistol right now I would shoot you. Wait my chainsword still works. Hold still."

Silliness aside, I agree with you. It seems quite odd indeed.



#6 Morangias

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 06:50 AM

Try "Sorry my Lord Commissar, you're not authorized to be granted another Bolt Pistol".

This is quite silly indeed. Executing guardsmen with a standard issue lasgun doesn't have the same vibe as callously blowing one's brains out with a mass-reactive mini rocket.


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#7 Guest_Not In Sample_*

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 02:41 PM

Dont be silly. Otherwise he could order one for every man in the squad. Same thing with heavy flamers. And that would be a frightful wast of the emperors resources.

Also, it is more common for a commissar to execute with a laspistol which he keeps as backup. Most commissars dont even carry bolt pistols. They carry a sword and power fist. Or a boltgun.

A bolt pistol isnt mass produced in the same way a las pistol is. They require the skilled labour of techpriests and subsequently cost more. Some items they can only afford to issue once.

How do arbitraters get away with it? Havent you figured it out? Arbitrators are mary sue.



#8 Morangias

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 12:46 AM

It'd be silly if the Commissar could requisition bolt pistols and chainswords for the whole squad.

But it's equally silly when a designated heavy gunner cannot get a replacement heavy weapon of any kind.


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#9 vogue69

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 12:53 AM

Morangias said:

GalagaGalaxian said:

 

And from what I understand you do NOT get free replacements of that equipment, so don't lose it!

 

 

This appears to be correct. Quite strange, especially for the likes of Storm Troopers and Commissars.

i thought the specialist equipment counts as standard issues gear for that specific character. If that's not the case, I would house rule it immediatly.



#10 Guest_Not In Sample_*

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 01:20 PM

Morangias said:

It'd be silly if the Commissar could requisition bolt pistols and chainswords for the whole squad.

But it's equally silly when a designated heavy gunner cannot get a replacement heavy weapon of any kind.

Wouldnt that require a requisition test? Same as upgrading a heavy bolter to a lascannon?



#11 Morangias

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 02:24 AM

LazerTracer said:

Morangias said:

 

It'd be silly if the Commissar could requisition bolt pistols and chainswords for the whole squad.

But it's equally silly when a designated heavy gunner cannot get a replacement heavy weapon of any kind.

 

 

Wouldnt that require a requisition test? Same as upgrading a heavy bolter to a lascannon?

Yes, that's how it currently works.

Now, consider a squad of Cadian Shock Troops. Say the squad consists of two weapon specialists (one of them toting a lasgun, the other a grenade launcher), one Heavy Gunner with a heavy stubber, one Operator for their Chimera, and one Sergeant to keep it all running smoothly.

If their Chimera is ever destroyed in battle, they get a replacement at first opportunity, no roll.

If anyone's armor get destroyed by a nasty crit, it will be resupplied at first opportunity, no roll.

If the lasgun specialist loses his weapon, he can resupply automatically at first opportunity, no roll.

But:

If the Sergeant gets his chainsword destroyed while fighting a power sword-equipped heretic, he has to roll Logistics to get a new one.

If the grenade specialist breaks his launcher on an Ork's head, he has to roll Logistics to get a replacement.

If the Heavy Gunner has to abandon his stubber because it's out of ammo and the squad can't afford to carry a useless weapon given the circumstances, he has to roll Logistics to get a replacement.

But hey, they can all get as many lasguns, combat knives and Chimera transports as they need!

Now, can you tell me that you see the logic behind that divide?


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There is no constancy in flesh, only decay.
There is no certainty in flesh but death.


#12 TCBC Freak

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 12:35 PM

Morangias said:

LazerTracer said:

 

Morangias said:

 

It'd be silly if the Commissar could requisition bolt pistols and chainswords for the whole squad.

But it's equally silly when a designated heavy gunner cannot get a replacement heavy weapon of any kind.

 

 

Wouldnt that require a requisition test? Same as upgrading a heavy bolter to a lascannon?

 

 

Yes, that's how it currently works.

Now, consider a squad of Cadian Shock Troops. Say the squad consists of two weapon specialists (one of them toting a lasgun, the other a grenade launcher), one Heavy Gunner with a heavy stubber, one Operator for their Chimera, and one Sergeant to keep it all running smoothly.

If their Chimera is ever destroyed in battle, they get a replacement at first opportunity, no roll.

If anyone's armor get destroyed by a nasty crit, it will be resupplied at first opportunity, no roll.

If the lasgun specialist loses his weapon, he can resupply automatically at first opportunity, no roll.

But:

If the Sergeant gets his chainsword destroyed while fighting a power sword-equipped heretic, he has to roll Logistics to get a new one.

If the grenade specialist breaks his launcher on an Ork's head, he has to roll Logistics to get a replacement.

If the Heavy Gunner has to abandon his stubber because it's out of ammo and the squad can't afford to carry a useless weapon given the circumstances, he has to roll Logistics to get a replacement.

But hey, they can all get as many lasguns, combat knives and Chimera transports as they need!

Now, can you tell me that you see the logic behind that divide?

I just rolled a 06 on my Logic test, well under my Int of 47. I agree that is not logical at all…


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#13 deinol

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 06:49 AM

 Have you read the Munitorum Manual? Losing your las rifle is a treasonous offense punishable by execution. So is leaving your fallen comrades gear behind.

Logic has nothing to do with Imperial Requisition procedures.



#14 N0-1_H3r3

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 08:08 AM

deinol said:

 Have you read the Munitorum Manual? Losing your las rifle is a treasonous offense punishable by execution. So is leaving your fallen comrades gear behind.

Logic has nothing to do with Imperial Requisition procedures.

Oh, logic is involved… it's just a logic that focusses on a very large picture. If an infantry regiment consists of ten thousand souls, then you send a consignment of ten thousand lasguns, rather than checking if each and every individual guardsman needs one. Human beings are born and Imperial Guardsmen recruited at a rate that far exceeds the rate at which lasguns and other equipment are produced, making Guardsmen a far more expendable resource than the arms they carry… often, the same armaments will be used by several successive generations of Imperial Guardsmen (in the case of the Vostroyan Firstborn, most wargear can be considered a family heirloom).


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#15 eldath

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 12:57 AM

Whilst I do agree that speciality based equipment should be  replaceable, there have been instaces where this has been in the fluff. Commissar Ciaphas Cain was armed with a laspistol, and Commissar Gaunt lost his bolt pistol during one mission and for the rest of the Gaunts Ghost's books I have read was again armed with only a las pistol.

With regard to Commissars and Storm Troopers requisitioning bolt pistols and chainswords for the rest of the squad, that would not be the case as the replacement would be exactly that, a replacement. No Commissar would ever dream of defrauding the Munitorium and by extension, the Emperor….Well maybe Cain would but not for the grunts he is with only for himself and perhaps Jurgen.

I suspect that it is an oversight and that Speciality equipment should be considered standard for those Specialities issued with them, the example given of the Weapon Specialist losing his melta and being able to use his Lasgun probably refers more to being able to do that until he is able to see the quartermaster, though there may or may not be a delay while the quartermaster sources one for him.

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#16 MorioMortis

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 03:21 AM

 I'd just put the starting gear of the speciality as part of that soldier's standard gear, and maybe give them some trouble if they lose it too often (after all, this is not specially requisitioned gear, it's the stuff the Munitorum issues everyone in their position). At the very least, I'd give them sizeable bonuses on Logistic tests to reacquire it, because they aren't asking for anything particular, just to be sent another set of "standard speciality x"s gear. Of course, that creates the problem where some one can order his gear for everyone, but the Munitorum is bound to get suspicious that you aren't taking good care of your gear (which is punishable by death) if you do it too often.


The stupid must be bashed upon the head with the Mallet of Wisdom until their heads are inflated with knowledge.

 

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#17 Grubisha

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 01:34 AM

MorioMortis said:

but the Munitorum is bound to get suspicious that you aren't taking good care of your gear (which is punishable by death) if you do it too often.

Unless you're a member of some Gung-Ho Regiment which is usually given the hardest task on the battlefield, suicidal assaults, dangerous infiltration missions or defense to last men alive. In that case even Munitorum can't suspect anything. But if you're Johnny Soldierboy sitting in a trench all damn war and you lose your equipment very often that could lead to accusations and possible death. Thats my oppinion.



#18 Andor

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 04:25 AM

MorioMortis said:

 I'd just put the starting gear of the speciality as part of that soldier's standard gear, and maybe give them some trouble if they lose it too often (after all, this is not specially requisitioned gear, it's the stuff the Munitorum issues everyone in their position). At the very least, I'd give them sizeable bonuses on Logistic tests to reacquire it, because they aren't asking for anything particular, just to be sent another set of "standard speciality x"s gear. Of course, that creates the problem where some one can order his gear for everyone, but the Munitorum is bound to get suspicious that you aren't taking good care of your gear (which is punishable by death) if you do it too often.

Giving the 'favored weapon' +10 to reaquire specialist gear would seem pretty reasonable to me. And as for logic and IG requisitions… You're kidding right? This is 40k, you're lucky if you order a case of krak grenades and they only send you a case of smoke grenades, as opposed to, say, an untrained sqiggoth that was supposed to be sent to an inquisitorial research base.



#19 lostguardguy

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 07:30 AM

Unknown said "Dont be silly. Otherwise he could order one for every man in the squad. Same thing with heavy flamers. And that would be a frightful wast of the emperors resources." The GM could step in at this point and say "Thats a -60 Will-power test to waist the God Emperor's resources" "Why such an agreejus negative to the test?" The player asks dumfounded "The only thing your character has cared about sense the death of his parents is the God Emperor of mankind. He sees waisting resources as a bratrail to Him. There for a -60" "Can I still get one to replace my broken one for free." "By all means but the guy in the armory knows you have one now. You cant get one til after the next mission and if you have one working there's a WP test."Sorry for any mis-speeled words or gramarical errors Im doing this on a PS3. 



#20 .113

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 08:38 AM

The thing is that, even a weapon specialist trained for use with flamers and starting with one of these, a heavy gunner with a rocket launcher or similar, a sergeant and so on, is still just an Imperial Guardsman.

The standard kit is, as described in the book as, the fall back gear. It enough to keep someone fighting, despite being out of ammunition for his otherwise special gear. And it's just for the most part that you do get these things back when you need to replace it. But, a droptrooper regiment who doesn't get their gravchutes simply cannot jump out of a valkyrie without surviving and a mech-infantry can't perform as quickly as normal without their chimeras. A weapon specialist without his flamer is just slightly less dangerous. he can still kill stuff, so he isn't any kind of priority.

note that even standard regiment gear is mentioned as almost always available, it also mentions that those things are +20 to get if a test is needed.

 

A commissar doesnt need a boltpistol. but he was probably awarded one at some time. Especially since its considered good quality. If he looses it, shame on him. They don't grow on trees. Keep track of your gear.






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