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Call for Fire MIA…


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#1 MorganKeyes

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 10:47 AM

Something I found missing in the rules and should be especially considered for a Guard game (and to a lesser extent to a game like DW), would be tables and rules for calling in fire support.  This is everything from getting company mortars to field artillery to air strikes to orbital fires. 



#2 Guest_Not In Sample_*

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 11:07 AM

I suppose this makes sence. You must need some kind of protocol to call in a basalisk bombardment. Also, mortar companies arnt uncommon. But this is usually left up to a lieutenant.

But then again, commands tend to travel down the ranks, not up, and some regiments like the Drop troops dont tend to have artillery companies, and rely on things like strafing runs.

It must require a bit of requisition, or perhaps a renown system, indicating that your renown makes your request a priority over that of other squads.



#3 MorganKeyes

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 11:24 AM

Certainly requisition works if you want pre-planned and dedicated artillery support.  But often enough it gets down to a "oh $^!%!!" situation where you need fires leveled on a tough point and have to hope the general artillery and support pool has the time for you.

This also brings up the thought of the Support Table, which Call for Fire could be "in addition to", or "part of".  This would be a Command test made to see if one could get some type of support.  The table could have random events like "recon asset passes on info, given +X to Perception and Initiative Y rounds" or "supporting fire from neighboring infantry platoon requires tests by enemy to avoid Pinning and always consider Outnumbered", to "unit gets access to a random AFV for X rounds of combat to support the squad".  And also at the lower end of the chart throw in bad things for trying to request support, from "bad intel" to "friendly fire" to "unit ordered to hold position and now subject to -X on Initiative" as well as "call for armored support answered, however supporting unit has turned action into a major engagement with the PC's unit caught in the middle of a tank duel/Titan assault/Inquisition bombardment/etc;…run like Hell!"



#4 HTMC

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 07:38 PM

 Actually Rites of Battle for DW had exactly those kinds of rules to buy fire support like artillery strikes and the like, and I thought it was done very well. I would love to see something similar implemented for OW, although as someone pointed out the average Guardsman would probably not be able to order such support unless it was pre-planned. 

 

Alternately, it would be something that a GM could easily set-up for a campaign without too much trouble, since in some situations I would imagine giving GM discretion on how large-scale fire support plays out would be better than having concrete rules for. Although I suppose having the option to use tables wouldn't hurt, necessarily. 



#5 Blood Pact

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 04:29 PM

Requisitioning heat-of-the-moment fire support I don't like the sound of, myself. You requisition things you think/know you'll need, as opposed to the aforementioned "oh ****!" moments that produce radio traffic calling for an artillery bombardment ASAP.

A table that mapped out the variables of a command roll (I guess that'd be the best skill), based on the rank of the one making the request, as well as a few other variables like the availability of artillery in the overall theatre, the weight of fire you're requestion (lobbing a few mortar shells is easier than a sustained barage by the heavy bombards), and maybe just the overall urgency of the battle (though some could maybe be left to the GM).

It'd give more of the right feel than "buy artillery support. call it when you need it."



#6 MorganKeyes

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 07:11 AM

Very much in agreement with Blood Pact.  And extensive tables may not be needed, to answer HTMCs concern. A simple listing of modifiers to the Command check, and your Degree of Success determining how much support and/or quality of support you get.  And that still leaves much to the discretion of the GM.  How so?  Instead of a percentile roll determinate table to determine the Support type, you have a table that lists out the various types of potential fire support and their effects.  Everything from Company mortars to various airstrike types to heavy artillery to ortillery.  Here you can list a system, the minimum DoS to get it, and the effects of a barrage based on the DoS. For something as simple as company mortars, it could be "2-4 Blast [5] 2d10 X impacts, 2-5 rounds delay" for a basic DoS result, to something like "DoS: 3 of better, up to three rounds of fire of the Basic Barrage, +10 on accuracy".  Higher DoS's can give better support types, more rounds of availability, better accuracy, even specialized types.  And this could still be done using HTMCs suggestion of the a Requisition as in Rites of Battle. Though in that instance what you can be "buying" is a "Priority Support Request" which give X amount of bonuses to Command checks for support.



#7 Dulahan

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 06:23 AM

For all Artillery orders come from above…

 

The eyes on the field are the ones sending the request.  "We're Pinned down!  Request artillery/airstrike at coordinates  54 mark 234!"



#8 Blood Pact

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 06:13 PM

Yes, but it really just comes down to Command seeming like the most appropriate choice for a skill to use.

And there's no garauntee of success, because I never said you were giving orders, but calling for fire support. Just how well you can get accross the need for fire support (your skill test), along with some other variables, is what determines if you get that fire support, and how soon/heavy/long it is.



#9 MorganKeyes

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 04:18 PM

Blood Pact said:

Yes, but it really just comes down to Command seeming like the most appropriate choice for a skill to use.

And there's no garauntee of success, because I never said you were giving orders, but calling for fire support. Just how well you can get accross the need for fire support (your skill test), along with some other variables, is what determines if you get that fire support, and how soon/heavy/long it is.

Blood Pact has it right, coming from someone who use to call in fire missions, and that's just as a squad leader. But while the Imperial Guard may be closer to a WW2 Soviet model the a WW2 American model for "calls for fire" what I also propose is the call for ANY support, not just arty. 



#10 JuankiMan

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 12:50 AM

 I don't think this needs any kind of particular ruling. In Deathwatch, when the Kill-Team requisition an artillery barrage it means that the requisitioned units are deployed accordingly and await thier command. An OW squad has nowhere near that kind of authority, so it'd be left to the GM, who should know where are any mortar emplacements or artillery pieces deployed. If the squad has a vox caster and, ideally, a hand-held targeter, it can request artillery support (together with all other squads doing the exact same thing). If the GM made you roll anything, I think he should make you roll Charm, because you're not ordering the strike (you don't have the authority to do so) you're trying to convince command that your target is more important than anyone else's.






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