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A few questions from a beginner


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#1 eirei

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 08:33 AM

First off, sorry if this is in the wrong subforum, this is my first post here - and sorry about the wall of text that's about to hit you.

While I've been a TCG player for years now, CoC is my first LCG venture. I really like the system for allowing me to remain competitive without being forced to buy individual cards only, or boxes upon boxes of boosters. Not that there's a CoC scene here, but I should have enough to make a few decks for myself and a few other friends soon.

Well then, before I actually get into real play, I want to resolve some of the rule/deckbuilding issues I have as a complete newcomer to the game.

1. Regarding Steadfast cards - the cost next to the name doesn't have to be paid, only matched, right? Also, the same resource can't be used to match the card cost and the steadfast cost? For example, if I have a Hastur card that costs 2 and has (H)(H) as its steadfast cost, I would have to drain a domain with 2 resources, one of them being H, and I would have to match two other H resources, right?

2. When playing a card with cost 0, am I required to drain a domain? In either case, do I have to do a resource match as usual?

3. Speaking of costs, are expensive cards such as Ancient Ones viable at all? While the domain system excludes the possibility of a "mana screw", one would have to commit to a single domain for 5 turns to pay for a 6 cost card - and to me, committing to a single domain doesn't seem like it's worth it. Not that I'll be playing in a very competitive environment, but I like to tweak my decks to peak performance, and using 5+ cards seem like a step in the opposite direction.

4. Are Events and activated abilities the only things that can be played during an opponent's turn?

5. If I understand Lightning Gun correctly, a character with LG attached adds two extra C struggles to any story it's committed to?

6. When are new Asylum Packs released? I'm particularly interested in Lost Rites - I want that King in Yellow Folio.

7. Which cycles contain Silver Twilight cards, so that I can avoid them for now? I've just about finished Forgotten Lore and am looking at the Yuggoth contract, because I've seen it recommended to many beginners. Any ideas what I should go for after that? I know that there's no need to actually complete a cycle, but I like to buy things in order for whichever reason.

8. Have there been any news regarding the reprinting of the Dreamlands cycle? I'm a big fan of the Dreamlands stories, but I don't feel like buying 3 copies of each pack.

9. I've heard the Silver Twilight isn't a faction for beginners because of their combo nature. When I eventually do get their expansion, will it be sufficient to make a somewhat decent deck? Or will I need to get some packs for them as well? If so, any recommendations?

I'm pretty sure I forgot a few things, but this should be enough for now. Any additional tips for a beginners are more than welcome.

Thanks.



#2 ssjevot

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 09:53 AM

eirei said:

First off, sorry if this is in the wrong subforum, this is my first post here - and sorry about the wall of text that's about to hit you.

While I've been a TCG player for years now, CoC is my first LCG venture. I really like the system for allowing me to remain competitive without being forced to buy individual cards only, or boxes upon boxes of boosters. Not that there's a CoC scene here, but I should have enough to make a few decks for myself and a few other friends soon.

Well then, before I actually get into real play, I want to resolve some of the rule/deckbuilding issues I have as a complete newcomer to the game.

1. Regarding Steadfast cards - the cost next to the name doesn't have to be paid, only matched, right? Also, the same resource can't be used to match the card cost and the steadfast cost? For example, if I have a Hastur card that costs 2 and has (H)(H) as its steadfast cost, I would have to drain a domain with 2 resources, one of them being H, and I would have to match two other H resources, right?

2. When playing a card with cost 0, am I required to drain a domain? In either case, do I have to do a resource match as usual?

3. Speaking of costs, are expensive cards such as Ancient Ones viable at all? While the domain system excludes the possibility of a "mana screw", one would have to commit to a single domain for 5 turns to pay for a 6 cost card - and to me, committing to a single domain doesn't seem like it's worth it. Not that I'll be playing in a very competitive environment, but I like to tweak my decks to peak performance, and using 5+ cards seem like a step in the opposite direction.

4. Are Events and activated abilities the only things that can be played during an opponent's turn?

5. If I understand Lightning Gun correctly, a character with LG attached adds two extra C struggles to any story it's committed to?

6. When are new Asylum Packs released? I'm particularly interested in Lost Rites - I want that King in Yellow Folio.

7. Which cycles contain Silver Twilight cards, so that I can avoid them for now? I've just about finished Forgotten Lore and am looking at the Yuggoth contract, because I've seen it recommended to many beginners. Any ideas what I should go for after that? I know that there's no need to actually complete a cycle, but I like to buy things in order for whichever reason.

8. Have there been any news regarding the reprinting of the Dreamlands cycle? I'm a big fan of the Dreamlands stories, but I don't feel like buying 3 copies of each pack.

9. I've heard the Silver Twilight isn't a faction for beginners because of their combo nature. When I eventually do get their expansion, will it be sufficient to make a somewhat decent deck? Or will I need to get some packs for them as well? If so, any recommendations?

I'm pretty sure I forgot a few things, but this should be enough for now. Any additional tips for a beginners are more than welcome.

Thanks.

Hi I just started playing too for similar reasons (less emphasis on spending a ton of money, more emphasis on deck building).  I can answer some of these.

1. Steadfast costs just mean you need to possess that many resources, drained, undrained, it doesn't matter, you just need to possess them.  So you can play a zero cost steadfast card, for instance Pulled Under, as long as you posess two Cthulhu faction resources.  Nothing is drained to pay for it, but you can't throw it in a mono-Hastur deck and play it (unless you resource two of them first), because although the cost is zero, you need to possess these resources to play the card.

2. No, and you only need to make a match on steadfast costs.  You can play Snow Graves (cost zero Shub card) in any deck and play it for free as it has no steadfast cost.

3. Ancient Ones are very viable, and you can use a variety of cards to get them in play quickly.  Turn two Cthulhu is not only possible, my fiance has done it to me before.  Some Ancient Ones are very common (Y'Golonac is a staple in Shub decks and can be played turn one with the right cards and a lucky draw) and others have very powerful abilities that make them well worth the cost.

4. Every time an opponent commits an action you have a chance to play an action, playing most cards is considered an action.  It gets kind of complicated, I recommend consulting the table at the end of the Core Set rulebook and the FAQ on this site (under the Support section) for more information.

5. Yes, that's correct.  The cards in some sets explain this and in others just show those icons, I have no idea why.

6. Lost Rites should come out on Monday, and I'm already planning on using the card you just mentioned in one of my decks.  It looks amazing.

7.  All cycles after the Silver Twilight faction was introduced contain them.  This means all cycles after The Yuggoth Contract.

8. I would like to know that myself, I think you can get by with buying two packs depending on what cards you want 3 copies of.  Either way I agree it's unfortunate.  Some are impossible to find as well.

9. I made a topic on here precisely because I couldn't figure out how to use them correctly.  Now though I'm making a deck with them and they seem more accessible.  I recommend checking out my topic on here about the Silver Twilight faction for answers.

 



#3 eirei

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 06:37 AM

Thanks for the quick reply! I need a clarification about a few of your answers though:

ssjevot said:

1. Steadfast costs just mean you need to possess that many resources, drained, undrained, it doesn't matter, you just need to possess them.  So you can play a zero cost steadfast card, for instance Pulled Under, as long as you posess two Cthulhu faction resources.  Nothing is drained to pay for it, but you can't throw it in a mono-Hastur deck and play it (unless you resource two of them first), because although the cost is zero, you need to possess these resources to play the card.

Can you use the resource you used to match the card's faction for the steadfast cost as well? Say I had a Yog card that costs 2 with (Y)(Y) as the steadfast cost, and I had one domain with 2 Yog cards on it and nothing else. Can I just drain that domain, match one Yog resource on it because I'm playing a Yog card, and then match that same resource and the other one for the steadfast cost?

I hope you get what I mean, I worded this pretty terribly.

ssjevot said:

4. Every time an opponent commits an action you have a chance to play an action, playing most cards is considered an action.  It gets kind of complicated, I recommend consulting the table at the end of the Core Set rulebook and the FAQ on this site (under the Support section) for more information.

I know how the action priority system works, but my question was actually about the card type itself. Does this mean I can play, say, a character or support card during the opponent's turn? Are there no restrictions unless the card is specifically worded (i.e., "plays during your operations phase")?



#4 ssjevot

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 07:14 AM

eirei said:

Thanks for the quick reply! I need a clarification about a few of your answers though:

ssjevot said:

 

1. Steadfast costs just mean you need to possess that many resources, drained, undrained, it doesn't matter, you just need to possess them.  So you can play a zero cost steadfast card, for instance Pulled Under, as long as you posess two Cthulhu faction resources.  Nothing is drained to pay for it, but you can't throw it in a mono-Hastur deck and play it (unless you resource two of them first), because although the cost is zero, you need to possess these resources to play the card.

 

 

Can you use the resource you used to match the card's faction for the steadfast cost as well? Say I had a Yog card that costs 2 with (Y)(Y) as the steadfast cost, and I had one domain with 2 Yog cards on it and nothing else. Can I just drain that domain, match one Yog resource on it because I'm playing a Yog card, and then match that same resource and the other one for the steadfast cost?

I hope you get what I mean, I worded this pretty terribly.

ssjevot said:

 

4. Every time an opponent commits an action you have a chance to play an action, playing most cards is considered an action.  It gets kind of complicated, I recommend consulting the table at the end of the Core Set rulebook and the FAQ on this site (under the Support section) for more information.

 

 

I know how the action priority system works, but my question was actually about the card type itself. Does this mean I can play, say, a character or support card during the opponent's turn? Are there no restrictions unless the card is specifically worded (i.e., "plays during your operations phase")?

Yes you could play that Yog card in the scenario you laid out.

For steadfast all that matters is that those resources are possessed under your control.  If you drain resources they are still possessed so they can still pay any steadfast cost.  It's actually better not to think of steadfast as a cost but as a limitation.  It basically says only play this card if you have X resources of this type in your control (where X is equal to the number of icons).  You're not actually paying in the sense of draining a domain.  The actual card cost paying is identical to any other card, you need to resource match and have at least as many resources as the card costs on the domain you drain, it's just steadfast adds a limitation onto playing that card (think of it as having text on it that says: "Only play this card if you possess 2 Yog resources." for your example).

Character and Support cards can only be played during your operations phase (unless they have an ability that causes them to enter play during another phase (such as Cthulhu favorite Dreamlands Fanatic).



#5 dummiesday

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 10:21 PM

Oooh, a meaty post, just the way I like them! Let's see if we can shed some light on your questions.

eirei said:


First off, sorry if this is in the wrong subforum, this is my first post here - and sorry about the wall of text that's about to hit you.
While I've been a TCG player for years now, CoC is my first LCG venture. I really like the system for allowing me to remain competitive without being forced to buy individual cards only, or boxes upon boxes of boosters. Not that there's a CoC scene here, but I should have enough to make a few decks for myself and a few other friends soon.
Well then, before I actually get into real play, I want to resolve some of the rule/deckbuilding issues I have as a complete newcomer to the game.
1. Regarding Steadfast cards - the cost next to the name doesn't have to be paid, only matched, right? Also, the same resource can't be used to match the card cost and the steadfast cost? For example, if I have a Hastur card that costs 2 and has (H)(H) as its steadfast cost, I would have to drain a domain with 2 resources, one of them being H, and I would have to match two other H resources, right?


You've got that almost right. The Steadfast cost has to be matched, but it's independent from the resources you are paying. In your example, you need to have 2 Hastur resources in total attached to your domains, and you only need to pay for the card with a domain that has two resources, one of them has to be Hastur.

So, say you have in your first domain 1 Hastur and 1 Cthulhu resource, in your second 1 Hastur resource and in your third 1 Cthulhu resource. First you have to see if you have 2 Hastur resources in total in your domains. You do? Perfect! Now the only thing left is paying for the card. As it's a Hastur card, you have to pay for it doing a match resource, that is, exhausting a domain that has at least 2 resources, one of which must be Hastur - that would be the first one!

Note that Loyal is a different keyword that forces you to pay the whole cost of the card with resources from the same faction. For instance, if you wanted to play a Hastur card with cost 3 and loyal, you would have to exhaust a domain with at least 3 Hastur resources.


eirei said:


2. When playing a card with cost 0, am I required to drain a domain? In either case, do I have to do a resource match as usual?


Nope, you don't have to drain a domain. If the card doesn't have any Steadfast icons, you could actually play it in any deck, but chances are it has at least one. See Snow Graves (http://www.cardgamed...ow-Graves-AtMoM) vs. Initiation (http://www.cardgamed...itiation-tootst).


eirei said:


3. Speaking of costs, are expensive cards such as Ancient Ones viable at all? While the domain system excludes the possibility of a "mana screw", one would have to commit to a single domain for 5 turns to pay for a 6 cost card - and to me, committing to a single domain doesn't seem like it's worth it. Not that I'll be playing in a very competitive environment, but I like to tweak my decks to peak performance, and using 5+ cards seem like a step in the opposite direction.


You seem to have a very good grasp of the importance on resourcing properly and tempo. As you can imagine, an Ancient One with cost 8 won't probably see much play unless it can be brought into play using some trick or combo. As ssjevot pointed out very wisely, some Ancient Ones are indeed pretty cheap and usually extremely cost efficient. See Y'Golonac (http://www.cardgamed...t/YGolonac-Core) or Nodens (http://www.cardgamed...reams/nodens-kd).


Also, I find that a card of cost 5 or 6 is not necessarily prohibitive if you have the right amount of defense and acceleration, at least in casual play. More often than not, Cthulhu (http://www.cardgamed...low/Cthulhu-TWB) or Glaaki (http://www.cardgamed...sion/glaaki-aoa) can pretty much win you the game as soon as they hit the table.


eirei said:


4. Are Events and activated abilities the only things that can be played during an opponent's turn?

 

Yes, but don't forget that the active player always has priority. Therefore, if you wanted to play an event in the player's operation phase, you would have to wait for him to play something first or pass on the opportunity to do so.
 

eirei said:


5. If I understand Lightning Gun correctly, a character with LG attached adds two extra C struggles to any story it's committed to?

 

He definitely will, so make sure to slap it on a beefy, violent dude!


eirei said:


6. When are new Asylum Packs released? I'm particularly interested in Lost Rites - I want that King in Yellow Folio.


Not often enough! :D


In all seriousness, I think they're keeping a steady flow if one per month. I agree that the next pack looks promising!
 

eirei said:


7. Which cycles contain Silver Twilight cards, so that I can avoid them for now? I've just about finished Forgotten Lore and am looking at the Yuggoth contract, because I've seen it recommended to many beginners. Any ideas what I should go for after that? I know that there's no need to actually complete a cycle, but I like to buy things in order for whichever reason.


As a Silver Twilight fan, that makes me a sad panda, although I understand why you want to avoid them. The Yuggoth cycle is awesome because it doesn't have many unique mechanics and keywords (as opposed to the Dreamlands cycle with all the dreamers and the day/night stuff), and most cards just feel useful. Of course, the big expansions are well worth your money. I always recommend taking the plunge into the Silver Twilight expansion, but it seems I'm a minority here. The most common advice I've seen is more copies of the core set and perhaps one or 2 copies of Secrets of Arkham.


eirei said:


8. Have there been any news regarding the reprinting of the Dreamlands cycle? I'm a big fan of the Dreamlands stories, but I don't feel like buying 3 copies of each pack.


You are not alone, battle brother. Let us hope the day will come sooner rather than later.
 

eirei said:


9. I've heard the Silver Twilight isn't a faction for beginners because of their combo nature. When I eventually do get their expansion, will it be sufficient to make a somewhat decent deck? Or will I need to get some packs for them as well? If so, any recommendations?

 

Surprisingly, you can get a pretty decent deck out of the box. Not only that, but it will also be quite consistent and fun. Let me know if you want me to provide you with an example decklist!
 

There are a couple staples that you will probably want to have in your deck if you want to play in tournaments, though. Namely, Master of the Myths (http://www.cardgamed...of-the-myths-it) and Initiate of Huang Hun (http://www.cardgamed...huang-hun-cotje).


eirei said:


I'm pretty sure I forgot a few things, but this should be enough for now. Any additional tips for a beginners are more than welcome.
Thanks.


CoC may look a bit daunting at the beginning because the mechanics are quite unique, but I hope you stick with it and get to enjoy the game. All the CoC players I've met, without exception, have been very mature, kind and helpful, and the community is small but dedicated. Don't forget to ask in the rules subforum here or on boardgamegeek if you have any other questions!



#6 eirei

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 02:50 PM

Thanks for that, I get everything now. Now then, onwards to new mysteries!

When using a Response, I assume a single card can only respond once to any given trigger. But what about multiple Responses? Say I had two copies of the same event that triggered off a character being killed, could I play both, one after the other?

When readying cards at the start of your turn, can you choose to leave any exhausted?

What happens if a card makes you put into play a unique character that's already in play?



#7 ssjevot

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 11:17 PM

eirei said:

Thanks for that, I get everything now. Now then, onwards to new mysteries!

When using a Response, I assume a single card can only respond once to any given trigger. But what about multiple Responses? Say I had two copies of the same event that triggered off a character being killed, could I play both, one after the other?

When readying cards at the start of your turn, can you choose to leave any exhausted?

What happens if a card makes you put into play a unique character that's already in play?

 

No, you can only use one response, due to the action time table.  The last action after your first response was the response you just played.

No, you must ready all exhausted characters.

As per the Core Rulebook you cannot put another copy of a unique character into play for any reason.  As per the FAQ this includes cards you own that are in play (so if an opponent takes control of a card you own, you cannot play another copy).



#8 Penfold

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 05:41 AM

ssjevot said:

 

No, you can only use one response, due to the action time table.  The last action after your first response was the response you just played.

This is incorrect. As long as tha effect does not include a limiter, you may trigger as many responses to any given occurrence in the game as you would like. The Response window opens up and each player can trigger responses going back and forth for opportunities until both players pass consecutively. The only rule is each response can only trigger to the same occurrence once. If you had a single character receive a single wound, you could only trigger card A once to it. If it received 7 wounds it could respond 7 times, assuming the language was similar to (after a character you control is wounded." You could also respond to the single wound to a single character with 7 different cards (even if several of them are copies of the same card) as long as none of them said (Limit once per) or (Limit one per).

NOTE: the difference between once and one in the limits is based on whether it is a card ability, something being triggered in play, and a card effect, something being triggered out of play. A card that is triggered out of play has a limit that specifically prevents a card by that name from triggering that effect more than a specific number of times. A card triggered in play has a restriction to it using its ability more than the stated number of times. If that card leaves play and then enters play again, it is considered a new card with no memory of how many times it has triggered its ability.



#9 .Zephyr.

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 09:13 AM

edit: ok i was wrong [deleted to not confuse more]

 

I've learned you cant play another copy of unique even if opponent has stolen one from you, I didn't know that.

 

 



#10 jhaelen

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 08:27 PM

.Zephyr. said:

edit: ok i was wrong [deleted to not confuse more]

 

I've learned you cant play another copy of unique even if opponent has stolen one from you, I didn't know that.

 

And where did you learn that?

Is it because of the following text from the FAQ?

You cannot gain control of or play a
unique card if you already control or
own
a copy of that card in play.

(Emphasis mine)






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