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Where is the Grunt, the Goon, the Cannon fodder


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#1 Symmos

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 06:19 AM

Hoi,

I understand that with the Heavy Gunner, the Weapon Specialist, the Medic etc. you get a wide variety of "specialist" role inside a normal Guardsmen Troop. But where are the "normal" Grunts, the Lasgun swinging Cannon fodder without specialized skills or equipment - the normal Infantryman? Are they supposed to be the ominous comrades running around with you?

Please advise.

Thanks,

Sym



#2 Luther Engelsnot

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 06:39 AM

That should be the weapon specualist and the comrades. Of course the weapon specialist could also be something else, but choose the lasgun, take Lasgun Barrage or Rapid Reload and it should be want you want or not?


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#3 Symmos

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 06:48 AM

hm…. is it?

The feeling I got from the specialist, he is not a generalist, he has a different mission, a different battle approach, less the trench hugger, more the "take the tank out (melta), take the leader out (sniper  -not yet at least *cough*), cut their retreat (flamer)" kinda guy - as with the Heavy Gunner - sure with a Lasgun and the appropriate set of skills. But in that way, you can easily convert any other "vocation" that way.

What do you think?

Sym



#4 KommissarK

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 06:57 AM

So what then is a weapon specialist who chooses to take the good quality lasgun? That easily is the out to take if you want to just be a rank and file grunt.



#5 Symmos

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 07:27 AM

Well, I absolutely get your point. But again, the "good" lasgun specialist would be more or less the "Tackleberry" of the squad. Again, something out of the "ordinary".

I don`t know. Maybe I just overthink in this case. I have to admit, I don`t have the slightest clue how to "separate" someone like the grunt, from someone like the specialist gameplay-wise.

Sym

 



#6 KommissarK

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 07:32 AM

Realize that a good quality lasgun is nigh meaningless next to a common lasgun. The profile could read common quality and it make no difference. I fail to see how a weapon specialist's talents (expect maybe the breadth of their available weapon talents) or skills (once again, hardly un-grunt like) negate their ability to be a common footsoldier. Yes, they have a few extra grenades. Oh boy.



#7 Symmos

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 07:44 AM

Nah - it does not boil down to the weapon choice. No one prevents a "Grunt" to pick up a missile launcher and try his luck.

As mentioned before - you could easily run a Grunt out of every vocation there is at the moment (except of course the specials). I have to host a game to see if there is something missing in the long run.

Sym



#8 Frankie

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 09:41 AM

The funny thing is that, Only War is at a lower power level than even DH.

Starting PCs are roughly at DH level, except with better equipment. But everything is more expensive.



#9 KommissarK

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 09:44 AM

But you can also get the good stuff significantly earlier.



#10 Frankie

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 01:19 PM

Sure it's possible. But the XP difference point for point will only grow.



#11 Braddoc

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 03:23 PM

Weapon Specialists with a lasgun+low 20s INT=your trenchhugging grunt that die in the thousand every minute



#12 Symmos

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 12:22 AM

Ugh - should have read the whoooole description. I get where you guys coming from. My mistake. Ok, as per Core Book, the Weapons Specialist IS the Grunt of the Squad. I can live with that - I think i have diluted my view with just the label and the comparison to the table top cousin - where specialists are rare and well "special". In OW, the Weapon Specialist is the versatile "standard" soldier - who is given the option to focus on fighting and to arm himself with a variety of weapons to match the regiment flavor (so a Kanak Skull Taker would probably go for the +5 on WS).

So case closed.



#13 borithan

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 03:04 AM

Also, I think the design in mind was that the players would probably not want to play the lasgun grunt. Instead they were probably expected to want to be the "major roles" of the squad, ie the heavy weapons dude, the special weapon dude and the sergeant. The average grunts were expected to be covered by the "comrades", but there was still an option to approximate it with the Weapon Specialist.



#14 Morangias

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 08:17 AM

Frankie said:

The funny thing is that, Only War is at a lower power level than even DH.

Starting PCs are roughly at DH level, except with better equipment. But everything is more expensive.

What you said is as meaningless as a technically true statement can get.

Every game past DH prices advancements higher than DH. Every game with advancement charts past DH is more restrictive in what Talents it allows at what ranks than DH is. Every game except of OW is just getting started at the experience level where DH is either midway to or just entering the extremely broken endgame of Ascension. Deathwatch Marines are supposed to be the most powerful characters you can play, but Ascension chars make them look like retards.

Therefore, comparing any progression to that of Dark Heresy is pointless. And really, comparing the exp progressions of any two 40k games will yield strange, counter-intuitive results - generally, the more powerful the characters start, the slower they progress and thus the weaker they get compared to those starting from a lower tier as time goes by. Those "experience levels" for comparing characters from different games are rough guidelines at best, completely useless at worst.


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#15 JuankiMan

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 02:25 AM

Morangias said:

Frankie said:

 

…Deathwatch Marines are supposed to be the most powerful characters you can play, but Ascension chars make them look like retards.

I would NOT like to meet a 13k XP Deathwatch marine on a dark alley at night, even as an Ascension char.






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