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6th Edition Fluff Changes.


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#1 UncleArkie

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 04:38 AM

 So this time around I've skipped buying the new core rule book for WH40K, I don't play the table top mini game anymore, but I do still play all the pen and paper games so here is what I was wondering… What changed fluff wise, anyone know?



#2 Valhalla

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 04:50 AM

 As far as I know, the new edition has not been released yet, though of course I could be mistaken. So I guess it would be difficult for anyone to know the answer to your question as of yet 



#3 UncleArkie

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 06:20 AM

 Ah! I thought the bleeding thing was out…



#4 Ishmael Lok

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 06:51 AM

It will be released tomorrow, Saturday 30 June 2012.



#5 UncleArkie

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 10:12 AM

 I got my grubby little hands on it just now so I'll start chewing.



#6 UncleArkie

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 11:06 AM

*Spoilers* From here on in assume that anything I post in this thread is or may contain spoilers regarding the rulebook and other things..

 

 

You were warned.

 

So the first thing that really springs to mind is that the Holy Inquisition now report directly to the High Lords, no more cutting through the red tape, they have the mandate to take any action that they deem necessary to keep mankind safe. No one is safe from their eyes or ears. With the Astartes so much lower on the totem pole, Space Marines report to the Administratum, does make for a more "jump, how high?" type of universe for our transhuman friends. That said it seems like a few of the first founding chapters like the smurfs, wolves and dark angels have more or less stopped taking orders, it's hinted at, but not said outright. 

This makes for some interesting role-playing and harkens to another thread on this board, so lets keep that there.

For more cool fluff we get a lot more data on holy terra, nothing really new if you have been following the Horus Heresy books, but it's still cool to see it in one place and written out specifically, there are also some cool illustrations of the cradle of man in there that I really like, actually I really like most of the art work, just for that it's worth getting, especially the fold outs. Mentioning the foldouts, have a look and see if you can find any changes on the maps then please tell me, I love updated maps :)

This brings me to another thing I noted in "Emperors Gift", yes it's not the new rule book, but the two came out so close to each other. The Grey knights are created from gen-seed derived from the emperor and are apparently a lot more kick ass than a normal marine, so far so good, but! 

First Founding Chapters were made by the Emperor, their seed undiluted and they are again more powerful than their successor counterparts. Logan Grimmar (sure he's a Wolf Lord, but still) takes apart a squad of Grey Knights and him and his Wolf Guard take on a ton of GK's with no hesitation, the book also alludes that the Wolves are still at Legion strength and that is why they just stomp in the chapter that attacks Fenris. 

So all in all a lot of interesting stuff going on fluff-wise, what have you found and /talk :)



#7 Face Eater

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 12:41 PM

UncleArkie said:

*Spoilers* From here on in assume that anything I post in this thread is or may contain spoilers regarding the rulebook and other things..

 

Cheers Arkie,

Some of them seem to be changes, others were kind of patching th obvious.

The Space Wolves, with their only successor ever, just kind of lost a lot of geneseed. There were suddenly down to just over a chapter size. Makes more sense if there's a more of them. They are also one of the worst for turning up in every other battle.

Not sure if the sace marines position have changed that much, is it just showing that they are also deployed by the Departmento Munitorium (basically all the armed forces are) but they are still not directly controlled.

Mmm tasty.

 



#8 professor_kylan

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 12:56 PM

SQUATS ARE BACK, BABY!

 

As are Imperial Beastmen and Fishmen! There's a bunch of rnadom fluff in the back, regarding abhumans, how to field dress a flesh wound, that sort of thing. And it includes Squats.

 

*salutes with a tear in the eye* You've made a beautiful thing, GW. I salute you!



#9 Kshatriya

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 03:35 PM

UncleArkie said:

 

So the first thing that really springs to mind is that the Holy Inquisition now report directly to the High Lords, no more cutting through the red tape, they have the mandate to take any action that they deem necessary to keep mankind safe. No one is safe from their eyes or ears. With the Astartes so much lower on the totem pole, Space Marines report to the Administratum, does make for a more "jump, how high?" type of universe for our transhuman friends. That said it seems like a few of the first founding chapters like the smurfs, wolves and dark angels have more or less stopped taking orders, it's hinted at, but not said outright.

 

 

What do you mean the Inquisition now reports directly to the High Lords? What red tape before? They never reported to them before. Meh, dumb.

Space Marines reporting to the Administratum? Meh.



#10 professor_kylan

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 04:08 PM

Technically, Marines have always been listed under the Administratum (being one of teh Adeptus - Adeptus Arbites, Adeptus Ministorium, Adeptus Mechanicus, Adeptus Astartes etc). The chart that gives the locations of where everyone lies in Imperial Society was reprinted from the 2nd ed fluff (pg.19 of the Codex Imperialis - just double checked :P).

Since then, the fluff has basically evolved to say "This is what the Administratum thinks, but let's see them enforce it on the Ad.Mech or Astartes". Personally, I like the fact they've included it again, if only to demonstrate how crazy bad the Imperium's bureaucratic processes are.



#11 Kshatriya

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 04:11 PM

professor_kylan said:

Since then, the fluff has basically evolved to say "This is what the Administratum thinks, but let's see them enforce it on the Ad.Mech or Astartes". Personally, I like the fact they've included it again, if only to demonstrate how crazy bad the Imperium's bureaucratic processes are.

That's a good point.



#12 Dulahan

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 04:17 PM

Face Eater said:

UncleArkie said:

 

*Spoilers* From here on in assume that anything I post in this thread is or may contain spoilers regarding the rulebook and other things..

 

 

 

Cheers Arkie,

Some of them seem to be changes, others were kind of patching th obvious.

The Space Wolves, with their only successor ever, just kind of lost a lot of geneseed. There were suddenly down to just over a chapter size. Makes more sense if there's a more of them. They are also one of the worst for turning up in every other battle.

Not sure if the sace marines position have changed that much, is it just showing that they are also deployed by the Departmento Munitorium (basically all the armed forces are) but they are still not directly controlled.

Mmm tasty.

 

 

I've always seen the Space Puppies as making the most sense with their Great Companies being roughly chapter size.  Give or take.  (And by this, I mean like any chapter, they could range from barely 100 all the way to 1000+ depending on combat losses).  Given the semi-autonomy, you've got a reasonably 'tenable' position to prevent them from getting too much discression.  After all, even the Smurfs tend to keep a lot of control over their successors.  At least known ones.  So this is a distant but acceptable way to roll

 

Plus it makes them resisting Lorgar at Armageddon a lot more likely.  Legion Strength to resist a Legion.



#13 professor_kylan

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 04:20 PM

Don't quote me on this, but I seem to recall that it works out to about 200 marines on average to a great company - the wolves usually being able to field about 2500 or so battle brothers. Please don't ask me to give a page ref for that one! (I THINK it was in the Codex: Puppies, either the most recent one or the 2nd ed one).



#14 Dulahan

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 04:32 PM

professor_kylan said:

Don't quote me on this, but I seem to recall that it works out to about 200 marines on average to a great company - the wolves usually being able to field about 2500 or so battle brothers. Please don't ask me to give a page ref for that one! (I THINK it was in the Codex: Puppies, either the most recent one or the 2nd ed one).

 

One of the old ones.  More recent things have retconned that.  I've heard anywhere from 400 to 1000+ in recent talk.  Grimnars being the largest.



#15 herichimo

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:32 PM

Kshatriya said:

That's a good point.

Don't know if there's one in the newest chunk of dead trees, but the 3rd edition book had a blurb concerning the term "Adeptus".

"Adept is the title of a member of the Adeptus Terra the great Priesthood of Earth. It is used as a common form of address and acknowledgement of respct - hence its adoption by the Adeptus Astartes … and Adeptus Mechanicus … ."

 

Also keep in mind Ward had a hand in this new book. Expect fluff to make little to no sense, contradict older as well as other current fluff, and even contradict itself. Lets see how many khorne daemon princes Sgt. Harker has personnaly choked out in the coming months.



#16 borithan

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 11:15 PM

UncleArkie said:

 

This brings me to another thing I noted in "Emperors Gift", yes it's not the new rule book, but the two came out so close to each other. The Grey knights are created from gen-seed derived from the emperor and are apparently a lot more kick ass than a normal marine, so far so good, but!

What? Gene-seed serived from the Emperor. Lame… I smell the presence of the Ward in this.



#17 UncleArkie

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 11:29 PM

  /tinfoil hat

I've actually gained a newfound respect for mr. Ward, it seems that the contradictions are on purpose in this book, like the Imperial juggernaut is so big and so vast and so complex that you can't know the truth about the whole thing and the contradictions opens it up for you to make it in part your universe. More than ever before this version of the setting seems to cater to us t he RP crowd or at least the fluff bunnies, there are hints and half truths even in the non-fluff parts of the book.

/tinfoil hat off

As for the great companies, the foundation of the Wolf Brothers cut the chapter in half (Battle of the Fang), then they lost half a company during the siege. But this was a while ago. So that puts us at about 20000 wolves, which makes sense to me. I've always seen the companies almost as individual chapters, which puts each company strength at around 1200, give or take.

 

Also The Emperors Gift is Aaron Dembski-Bowden.



#18 Kshatriya

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 04:17 AM

borithan said:

 

UncleArkie said:

 

 

This brings me to another thing I noted in "Emperors Gift", yes it's not the new rule book, but the two came out so close to each other. The Grey knights are created from gen-seed derived from the emperor and are apparently a lot more kick ass than a normal marine, so far so good, but!

 

What? Gene-seed serived from the Emperor. Lame… I smell the presence of the Ward in this.

 

 

 

That has ALWAYS been the heavily-implied-but-unspoken origin of the Grey Knights.



#19 Blood Pact

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 05:23 AM

UncleArkie said:

This brings me to another thing I noted in "Emperors Gift", yes it's not the new rule book, but the two came out so close to each other. The Grey knights are created from gen-seed derived from the emperor and are apparently a lot more kick ass than a normal marine, so far so good, but! 

 

This is something that's actually been rumoured at for a long time.

And it remains to be seen whether just plugging the Marines in to that cute little (and old, and silly) chart actually really MEANS anything. Does it actually, explicitely say they take their orders from the Administratum? Cause until I see this for myself, I'm thinking it's more likely the status quo. They're technically under their purview, but they do whatever the hell they want for the most part.

Also, kinda skepticle about the Space Wolves numbering 10,000+. There are already Inquisitors and others worried about the fact that the Black Templars might have 6,000 Asartes spread around the Galaxy. With the Space Wolves being rather more concentrated, I can't see anyone turning a blind eye to a Legion strength force running around. Not that an actual Space Marine Legion would be an easy fight.



#20 Dulahan

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 06:56 AM

Kshatriya said:

borithan said:

 

UncleArkie said:

 

 

This brings me to another thing I noted in "Emperors Gift", yes it's not the new rule book, but the two came out so close to each other. The Grey knights are created from gen-seed derived from the emperor and are apparently a lot more kick ass than a normal marine, so far so good, but!

 

What? Gene-seed serived from the Emperor. Lame… I smell the presence of the Ward in this.

 

 

 

That has ALWAYS been the heavily-implied-but-unspoken origin of the Grey Knights.

 

Yep, it showed up in the Ultramarines books when Ventris and his buddy had to fight a Grey Knight, amongst other places.  So it's been in place for a while.

 

Still, it puts the kitbosh on the Grey Knights being derived from Loyalist Traitor Legion members such as Garro, which is a bit sad.  But does let us wonder what the heck they become now.






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