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Astral proyection and negate neutral. what is the correct way?


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#1 ogid

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 11:23 AM

Hi all!! My native language it´s not english so sorry for the gramatical mistakes ^^

I have some questions about the astral projection and the correct way to use it. Today my friends and i have played a game and we have some doubts about the way to use this card. A player used this card to cast a spell with line of sight (LOS) without it. She anounced the scuare, wait for 2 seconds and then played the other spell (an attack spell). In this moment there were 2 player in his new LOS, the spell target one of them and then he used the spell "negate neutral" in order to cancel "astral proyection" and, this way, negate the LOS.

Some of the players said that the spell couldn´t be canceled because the effect of the astral proyection had finished, this group said that the counterspell must be played before to see the other card. Others says that the astral proyection have to be played at the same time that the other spell and if any of them is canceled this effect doestn´t happen.

To summarize, we doubt between:

  • 1 announce the astral proyection, 2 wait for a counterspell, 3 cast the other spell 4 wait for a counterspell
  • 1 announce the astral proyection plus other spell, 2 wait for a counterspell.

What is the correct way?

If the correct way is the second (both spells are played together) what happen if a counter cancel the neutral one? there are 2 options, or the other spell is kept by the player or the player have the opportunity to play it with his normal LOS or have to discard it.

Thanks in advance ^^



#2 Rithe

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 01:22 AM

hay there, mainly you should cast each spell on its own, not as a mass group so in thory the play should go

1) astral pro - wait for any counters
2) first spell - wait for any counters
3) next spell - wait for any counters

 

and so on, casting a big mass of spells all in one go makes it hard for players to tell who or what can or cant be effected, also, playing one spell at a time allows you to draw out any counters players may be sitting on

 

hope this helps



#3 ogid

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 12:08 PM

Thanks for reply!

My position in this is the opposite, i think the correct choice is "1 announce the astral projection plus other spell, 2 wait for a counterspell".

I think this because i see this spell like a add of the other. For example, if the wizard gains LDV using a teleport or a destroy wall i agree with the first option, first the neutral spell is resolved, its spell is discarted and the effect occurs, then the attack spell can be used (like a new and different action). By this time the neutral spell can´t be canceled anymore because this spell is over.

However the astral proyection is (front my point of view) like "around the corner" or "add", it is a modifier of the spell. The text says that choose the scuare AND cast a spell. I see this spell like a attack spell, you have to anounce all of the choices before the counter. For example you can´t say, "i´m going to use waterbolt, any counter?, No?, are you sure?, Ok, so i use this 6 energy card with it".  It is the same, if you announce a spell you have to choose all of the options, and then the others players can decide whether they want counter.

What is more, it is a instant spell but is last until the cast of the other spell, so in this case we don´t have 2 independent spells, "astral projection" condition the cast of the other spell in the same way "around the corner" do.

For all of this i really think the correct way to use this link-kind spell is the second way. Is this correct? Are there any mistakes in the reasoning?



#4 Rithe

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 12:28 AM

the only problem there is

example:

you cast astral with magic darts and wall

i counter your astral, your darts and wall no longer drawl los and as a result will either go to discard pile (As they have been counterd with the astral) or they go back in your hand and i know have advantage, as i know what you have in your hand and can press the advantage.

 

to spam a tone of spells at the same time causes problems becuase you run the risk of losing card advantage and the element of supprise

 

as for using energy, you say "im casting waterbolt that is boosted with energy 6"  then wait for counters. and your right, you cant go i cast a spell any counters. right now im boosting it with energy. but at the end of the day. 

in the end, astral project is a spell, and you cast one spell at once. (using energy isnt a spell, its the spell with a bit more bang and energy cards -MUST- be declared as the spell is cast not after you have checked for counters.) so you should go

cast astral project - check for counters

cast water bolt with energy 6 - check for counters

cast wall - check for counters

 

not

 

cast astral procject with water bolt and wall - check for counters

 

becuase again, it leaves the problem off either one of 2 things happen

 

1) i counter astral project. your wall and bolt no longer have los or a cast sourse and go to graveyard

or

2) i coutner astral project, your wall and bolt go to your hand, i now know your next turn.



#5 ogid

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 08:47 AM

Hi! I see your point, but there are some situations where two actions can occur at the same time. I´ve been searching in forums and FAQs, there are 2 question and his answer (official faq):

Q. What spells can be cast while other spells are still resolving?
A. Only counter spells and spells whose function requires that timing can be cast while another spell is resolving (e.g., “Add” and “Around the Corner”).

Q. When using a spell or item, when do targets have to be selected or choices made (e.g., with the spell “Zot!”)?
A. Targets must be selected and choices made immediately when the spell is cast.
 

Astral projection is like add or around the corner, is a spell which modifies other spell so the correct timing to cast it is at the same time. The second question confirm my point too. You MUST anounce all of the choices of your spell (it doesn´t matter if it are energy or the cast of other spell). In this case the spell have 2 choices, the scuare you´re going to project and the spell you´re going to cast (and you only can cast one).

 

Your way is the correct way in the most of the situation, for example, if i cast a destroy wall in order to gain LDV to cast a fireball it is the correct way.






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