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Elder Sign Adventure Disparity


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#1 SpeakingDemon

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 04:10 AM

This is a question about the actual adventure card "Elder Sign" (the fact that the card has the same name as the game has made it all but impossible for me to search for the answer to my question on the forums, hence a new posting).

As part of the reward for finishing this adventure, the Doom token symbol appears, leading one to believe that, in addition to the other rewards for finishing this adventure, one should add a doom token to the doom track.  That sucks, but fine, we all know that not all rewards are good (You solved the puzzle!  You get a gun, some food, and a new monster!…Yay…?).

However!

In the iOS game, this same adventure has as part of its reward a doom token symbol that has been crossed out, and removes a doom token from the doom track.  Otherwise the adventures are identical.

By rules as written, there isn't a question; when playing the card game, you add a doom token as indicated.  But I am pretty convinced that's not the spirit of the card.  After all, in Arkham Horror, sealing a portal with an Elder Sign removes a doom token from the doom track (just like completing this adventure in ESO removes one).  It seems pretty clear to me that the Elder Sign adventure should remove a doom token, making it a powerful, meaningful card (the kind you might, say, name the game after).

So which is it?  Mistake?  Intentional difference?  Errata that I just haven't been able to find?  Insanity on my part?



#2 xris

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 12:47 AM

This had been noticed before, there's was a thread about it on BGG that drifted onto the topic,  Doom as a reward… which I made the following comment.

Elder Sign is the name of the Adventure card that has the Doom icon as a Reward. It is the only Adventure card of the boardgame that has this as a Reward. There are four Other World Adventure cards with a Doom token as a Reward but they are Other World, not normal Adventure cards.

 

I wouldn't be at all surprised that FFG simply got this incorrect in the original rules. We have seen plenty of other errors in the rulebook (such as the Wildcard icon on the red die can be used as a 4 Investigation, not as a 1 Investigation).

It might be only now that the app designers noticed this (or at least highlighted the issue) and have now taken steps to correct this. Admittedly, it does make the game easier but so did most of the other correction in the FAQ.

Maybe we will see this added to a future FAQ, that Doom icons as a Reward means you remove a Doom token on the Doom track. It doesn't break the game if this is implemented, certain clarifications will be needed but it can work. Yes, it makes the game easier but it makes those four Other World Adventure cards worthwhile because currently they aren't much of a reward considering you need to complete two Adventure cards to obtain the Reward (the original Adventure card that has an Other World icon as well as the OW Adventure card).

I do think it was most likely a mistake and the intent was that a Doom token should be removed. It makes those 4 Other World Adventure cards worthwhile to complete with this change.



#3 sepayne7l

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 05:47 AM

I noticed it too, and I'm going with the iOS version of the rules. Although there are times at the end of the game that adding a Doom token along with an Elder sign is worth it, now it makes opening up other worlds a lot more fun and worthwhile.



#4 Cimmeria

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 04:01 AM

The mobile version is somewhat different from the tabletop version. Some cards, and even some monsters. That's why, I think, it has a different name (i.e., it's not Elder Sign, it's another game, Elder Sign: Omens). In that sense, the card in ES:O that gets you to remove one doom token from the doom track has a slightly different symbol, i.e., a crossed-ou doom token.

The board game rules state that sometimes a reward can hinder you and a defeat can help you (I don't have my game here so I'm sorry for not quoting it verbatim). One example is an adventure (Administration Office?) which gives you a clue token when you fail to complete it. So, the Elder Sign adventure (and some Other Worlds adventures) actually have a nasty cost if you succeed on them. 

IMO.



#5 The Professor

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 01:52 AM

We've played it as the OP mentioned ~ it is the Elder Sign card, so we remove a Doom Token.


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#6 klaymen_sk

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 10:06 PM

SpeakingDemon said:

 

This is a question about the actual adventure card "Elder Sign" (the fact that the card has the same name as the game has made it all but impossible for me to search for the answer to my question on the forums, hence a new posting).

As part of the reward for finishing this adventure, the Doom token symbol appears, leading one to believe that, in addition to the other rewards for finishing this adventure, one should add a doom token to the doom track.  That sucks, but fine, we all know that not all rewards are good (You solved the puzzle!  You get a gun, some food, and a new monster!…Yay…?).

However!

In the iOS game, this same adventure has as part of its reward a doom token symbol that has been crossed out, and removes a doom token from the doom track.  Otherwise the adventures are identical.

By rules as written, there isn't a question; when playing the card game, you add a doom token as indicated.  But I am pretty convinced that's not the spirit of the card.  After all, in Arkham Horror, sealing a portal with an Elder Sign removes a doom token from the doom track (just like completing this adventure in ESO removes one).  It seems pretty clear to me that the Elder Sign adventure should remove a doom token, making it a powerful, meaningful card (the kind you might, say, name the game after).

So which is it?  Mistake?  Intentional difference?  Errata that I just haven't been able to find?  Insanity on my part?

 

 

 

I believe that it is intentional. In fact, removing the doom token will turn the game into a farce.

 

Note that the boardgame is easier than ES:O. In the digital game, there are no events adding doom token unless you sacrifice something - either some sanity/stamina, items, etc. doom+2 effect is only one and there are no doom+3 events, like Azathoth's event in ES:O (yes, there are lingering effects which can inconjunction with midnight event add 2 or 3 doom tokens, though they don't happen that often and as I have said before, many of the doom tokens can be prevented).

 

Also there are no monsters that add a doom token after their defeat (like Yig's cultists and serpents). Not to mention Ithaqua's campaign, which is flat out dependent on your luck and investigators.






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