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#1 miles1739

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 03:03 PM

Unless i missed it,did they include any military?Not sure if its even needed but a couple of question brought up in our group:

1.Any chance to to play a Lt ,Captain or even command your own regemen as a Colonel?

2.If say the Seregent is taken out of action how do you decide whos in command?Or is that better left as a role play decision?

3.How does Psykers and Ogryn's "fit" in a regement?Are they able to "give" orders to platoons or squads?Are they part of the HQ platoon and attached as needed to units?



#2 JonnyStorm

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 04:33 PM

miles1739 said:

 

Unless i missed it,did they include any military?Not sure if its even needed but a couple of question brought up in our group:

1.Any chance to to play a Lt ,Captain or even command your own regemen as a Colonel?

2.If say the Seregent is taken out of action how do you decide whos in command?Or is that better left as a role play decision?

3.How does Psykers and Ogryn's "fit" in a regement?Are they able to "give" orders to platoons or squads?Are they part of the HQ platoon and attached as needed to units?

 

  

In Only War you're pretty much just a grunt, 1 of billions of other soldiers. If you choose to create your own regiment, your group or the GM have the option to choose the personality and some of the traits/skills for the NPC Regimental Commander.  At the squad/platoon level most people would be playing at, it'll probably be a Sergeant, Commissar, or Ministorum Priest calling the shots. After them unless your group or GM decides to enforce it, there is no clear cut chain of command within the unit.  Also unless your GM decides to add it in, there is no set in stone rank promotion system.  Your Logistic Rating kinda represents your rank or reputation.   Doing well on missions increases the squads Logistics Rating(Basically Renown/Acquisitions/Requisition of the other games) which makes it easier for your group to get new or better gear.  There's a few examples of awards, medals, honors and commendations that give stat and skill bonuses to your squad for preforming certain heroic actions in battle or for completing a campaign.

 

If your group and GM really wants to micromanage the regiment and control the whole battle front as the Company/Regiment Commander and his/her staff or honor guard, then sure you can do it with in house rules.  But the skill challenges for ordering thousands of solders and individual units will get kinda boring fast, at least to me for an RPG.  Unless you're reckless and decide to lead from the front lines your group will also rarely get to do any actual battle unless things really go bad for your side.

 

Most Ogryn are extremely stupid, stupider than Orks stupid, and with none of the Orks latent genetic memories or abilities to make bull happen just because they believe it should happen.  They need handlers to mind them and keep them calm but Ogyrn do have a childlike faith in the righteousness of the Emperor and will follow authority figures.  Right now there's no in game option to give Ogryn the Bone 'Ead process that would make them smarter and able to become a NCO. Ogryn are normally attached to regiments as Ogryn only squads under a Bone 'Ead Ogryn Sergent. In this game they're treated as a Specialist class who are attached to units but rank wise the average Ogryn is basically just a standard Guardsman or most likely even lower ranked.

Psykers are from the HQ company and people would follow a Psyker outta fear, but rarely ever out of loyalty.  The average soldier really distrusts them and would gladly put a bullet in their heads if they loose control of their powers.  Also mechanically in this game, Psykers will have trouble building the stats and skills to get people to listen to their orders.

 

Also this is a war and your playing pretty much just ordinary guys. Unless your regiment or squad are supposed be elite soldiers or your GM plays with kid gloves, expect a high turn over rate of player characters and NPC comrades.



#3 Cifer

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 01:11 AM

 1.Any chance to to play a Lt ,Captain or even command your own regemen as a Colonel?

The latter parts… well, yes, you can command your own company or even regiment - there's even an entire game for just that. It's called Warhammer 40k.
A lieutenant on the other hand could be easily depicted by taking the Sergeant specialisation and buying some additonal skills and talents.



#4 Kasatka

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 02:59 AM

 Imperial guard operate on the following rank system, though the names of specific ranks will vary from regiment to regiment.

Trooper - Basic grunts with lasguns, making up the billions of infantry in the guard. Equivalent to privates, they have no subordinates.

Sergeant - Non commissioned officer that leads a squad of men. They have extensive battlefield experience and an aptitude to leading their troops, but no formal officer training.

Junior officers (Lieutenant, captain etc) - These are the trained officers that lead a section (usually around 50 men each), and will have a number of sergeants as their subordinates.

Senior officers (Majors, generals etc) - These are the veteran officers that lead entire army detachments, and have authority over the attached armour and support assets such as tanks and valkyries. Their immediate subordinates are the Junior officers commanding each section.

Beyond this you then have the officers that command entire fronts of a military campaign, with troops stretch across entire planets or even systems.

Outside of the military ranks there are specialists attached to a unit or fighting force, such as Commisars, Psykers, Ogryns etc. These specialists are generally not allowed to hold rank within the Imperial guard, with only a handful of known exceptions (Commisar-Colonel Ibram Gaunt of the Tanith 1st and Only being one of the more prominent ones). Specialists are generally unable to order around the individual assets of a fighting force - e.g. Commisars are there to make sure discipline and protocol is stuck to, not to make tactical decisions. Enginseers may issue edicts as to the use blessed machine assets, but may not order them around. None would be more suspect and shunned than battle psykers, who will be kept secure by their keepers both to stop them getting attacked by troopers and to keep the troopers safe.

As to who would take over if a sergeant is incapacitated, although it would have no mechanical gameplay effect a Sergeant will often appoint a 2nd, equivalent to a Corporal, that can help with issuing orders and maintaining discipline within the unit. This would typically be someone who shows basic aptitude for command and has some battlefield experience.


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#5 Santiago

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 03:38 AM

 I would assign one character the rank of corporal. Though the rank, as far as I know, has no footing in 40k canon it does fit the setting.
So in case of emergency, you have a backup.



#6 miles1739

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 05:53 AM

Ive read the Guant series and did purchase a copy of the Beta.

So,the commisar's although don't have a "rank" per se can they still order units around?If going by gaunt ghost's and such the answer would be yes.In the Beta copy i didn't find the rules that state this but then again I'm still reading the book.

As a side note;Even though I'm not a regular poster here Ive read and played DH,RT,BC and yes even the Warhammer 40k!

 



#7 miles1739

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 05:56 AM

Santiago said:

 I would assign one character the rank of corporal. Though the rank, as far as I know, has no footing in 40k canon it does fit the setting.
So in case of emergency, you have a backup.

Excellent idea Santiago,Iv'e thought about doing just this if there isnt a "official" rank structure in the game.The group that I would be gaming in when Only War comes out would be about 5+1 GM.



#8 Durandal7

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 06:18 AM

miles1739 said:

 

Ive read the Guant series and did purchase a copy of the Beta.

So,the commisar's although don't have a "rank" per se can they still order units around?If going by gaunt ghost's and such the answer would be yes.In the Beta copy i didn't find the rules that state this but then again I'm still reading the book.

 

 

 

Commissars stand outside the regimental command structure. They are typically advisers to high ranking officers and can be assigned to squads (but generally not a single one) to ensure discipline is maintained. Colonel-Commissar Ibram Gaunt is an anomaly (this is acknowledged in the books) as he has a regimental and Commissariat rank. But there are mitigating circumstances and it is highly unusual.

Commissars can take command if they feel the established officer/leader has failed in someway (he is usually dead via headshot at this point), but this is done in extremis and is not the norm. They do not normally have that kind of regular command over IG troops, but ranking Commissars may have subordinate Commissars. To the best of my knowledge :)

 


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#9 Santiago

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 06:22 AM

 So you would technically have 10 characters if the GM is not playing a character.
That would give you two fireteams of 5, one led by a sergeant, the other by the corporal



#10 Dulahan

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 06:30 AM

The other thing with Commissars is that while they might be outside of the typical command structure.  The fear and respect the men may hold for them is a big deal.

 

They might be listened to by simple dint of their knowledge, as they likely went through the SChola and thus have had a lot of training in regards to war and such.



#11 miles1739

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 10:54 AM

Santiago said:

 

 So you would technically have 10 characters if the GM is not playing a character.
That would give you two fireteams of 5, one led by a sergeant, the other by the corporal

 

 

That most certainly would  work.Any ideas what benefits a corporal might get?

Im looking at bridging the command ga between colonel/sargent/private.I was kinda hoping for rules on playing LT's and Captains etc etc.



#12 JonnyStorm

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 10:55 AM

In game mechanically, Heavy Gunners, Operators, and Weapon Specialists do have an inclination for Fellowship. One of them could be a corporal and pick up the Command and Charm skill at a reasonable price.   Ratlings have a fellowship aptitude, but thats more because they tend to be horny gluttonous black marketeers.  Also Ratlings are abhuman and their units are normally sent out as independent skulkers, them being in charge of a regular IG unit would likely be a disaster. As Guardsmen would follow a Commissar out of fear and respect, devout Guardsmen would be inspired to follow a Priest into war due to faith and respect.  Stormtroopers have the same Schola Progenium, but lack the charisma or personality to become a Commissar.  Average IG grunts tend to be jealous or dislike Stormtroopers due to their fancy edumacation and toy soldier gear so are unlikely to be motivated to follow them. 



#13 miles1739

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 10:57 AM

Durandal7 said:

miles1739 said:

 

Ive read the Guant series and did purchase a copy of the Beta.

So,the commisar's although don't have a "rank" per se can they still order units around?If going by gaunt ghost's and such the answer would be yes.In the Beta copy i didn't find the rules that state this but then again I'm still reading the book.

 

 

 

Commissars stand outside the regimental command structure. They are typically advisers to high ranking officers and can be assigned to squads (but generally not a single one) to ensure discipline is maintained. Colonel-Commissar Ibram Gaunt is an anomaly (this is acknowledged in the books) as he has a regimental and Commissariat rank. But there are mitigating circumstances and it is highly unusual.

Commissars can take command if they feel the established officer/leader has failed in someway (he is usually dead via headshot at this point), but this is done in extremis and is not the norm. They do not normally have that kind of regular command over IG troops, but ranking Commissars may have subordinate Commissars. To the best of my knowledge :)

 

Durandal7 said:

miles1739 said:

 

Ive read the Guant series and did purchase a copy of the Beta.

So,the commisar's although don't have a "rank" per se can they still order units around?If going by gaunt ghost's and such the answer would be yes.In the Beta copy i didn't find the rules that state this but then again I'm still reading the book.

 

 

 

Commissars stand outside the regimental command structure. They are typically advisers to high ranking officers and can be assigned to squads (but generally not a single one) to ensure discipline is maintained. Colonel-Commissar Ibram Gaunt is an anomaly (this is acknowledged in the books) as he has a regimental and Commissariat rank. But there are mitigating circumstances and it is highly unusual.

Commissars can take command if they feel the established officer/leader has failed in someway (he is usually dead via headshot at this point), but this is done in extremis and is not the norm. They do not normally have that kind of regular command over IG troops, but ranking Commissars may have subordinate Commissars. To the best of my knowledge :)

 

 

Like many things in Role Playing games….Im assuming it probably would be better to let the PC's act this out during a normal session if that became a dilema?

My gut feeling would be yes versus having a "rule" in Only war say so.



#14 miles1739

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 10:59 AM

JonnyStorm said:

In game mechanically, Heavy Gunners, Operators, and Weapon Specialists do have an inclination for Fellowship. One of them could be a corporal and pick up the Command and Charm skill at a reasonable price.   Ratlings have a fellowship aptitude, but thats more because they tend to be horny gluttonous black marketeers.  Also Ratlings are abhuman and their units are normally sent out as independent skulkers, them being in charge of a regular IG unit would likely be a disaster. As Guardsmen would follow a Commissar out of fear and respect, devout Guardsmen would be inspired to follow a Priest into war due to faith and respect.  Stormtroopers have the same Schola Progenium, but lack the charisma or personality to become a Commissar.  Average IG grunts tend to be jealous or dislike Stormtroopers due to their fancy edumacation and toy soldier gear so are unlikely to be motivated to follow them. 

Excellent point.I was thinking of giving the corporal some kind of skill or talent without making them as leader capable as a sargent.



#15 Durandal7

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 11:33 AM

miles1739 said:

 

Durandal7 said:

 

miles1739 said:

 

Ive read the Guant series and did purchase a copy of the Beta.

So,the commisar's although don't have a "rank" per se can they still order units around?If going by gaunt ghost's and such the answer would be yes.In the Beta copy i didn't find the rules that state this but then again I'm still reading the book.

 

 

 

Commissars stand outside the regimental command structure. They are typically advisers to high ranking officers and can be assigned to squads (but generally not a single one) to ensure discipline is maintained. Colonel-Commissar Ibram Gaunt is an anomaly (this is acknowledged in the books) as he has a regimental and Commissariat rank. But there are mitigating circumstances and it is highly unusual.

Commissars can take command if they feel the established officer/leader has failed in someway (he is usually dead via headshot at this point), but this is done in extremis and is not the norm. They do not normally have that kind of regular command over IG troops, but ranking Commissars may have subordinate Commissars. To the best of my knowledge :)

 

 

 

 

Like many things in Role Playing games….Im assuming it probably would be better to let the PC's act this out during a normal session if that became a dilema?

My gut feeling would be yes versus having a "rule" in Only war say so.

 

I'd have the roleplayers act it out, better that than a rule which is inflexible :P


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#16 miles1739

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 03:18 PM

As a side note i dug up my Imperial uplifters primer and they do have a rank structure of:

 

 

warmaster

lord general

general

marshal

lieutenant general

major general

colonel

lieutenant colonel

major

captain

lieutenant

sergeant

corporal

trooper



#17 Frankie

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 01:04 AM

The Lexicanum (sp?) has the rank structure listed.

Really, I like the fact in setting it's loose. it lets you, when you make your own regiment, decide on the rank structure in depth.

Wanna do a Red Army themed regiment? Take inspiration from the IRL rank structure.

 



#18 Kasatka

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 04:51 AM

Roleplay should be the final arbiter of group interactions. this is why i like using the vague rank system as presented in the Imperial Guard Codex. It allows an acknowledgement of an officers subordinates and superiors without putting too big a strain on the players. Simply put it goes  Trooper -> Sergeant -> Junior Officer -> Senior Officer.


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#19 KommissarK

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 05:35 AM

While the rules don't really provide too much in the way of details, the ability for the players to actually play command squad is not that difficult. In fact, the way a group can be composed of all sorts of specialists screams IG command squad (Ogryn bodyguard, psyker/priest/commissar advisors, medics, etc.). The only thing its lacking is a standard bearer. And thats just a guy to wave around a flag (Note to self, possible idea for a future comrade passive for a Lt/Captain advance).

Alot of this would really be abstracted is the thing. Nobody really wants to hear that Squad 2 has dealt 16 points of damage to the 3rd horde of Orks to the west. That can be handled by the GM. The players would just need to provide a rough location on the table of where they think things should be positioned, and make a few Scholastic Lore (Tacita Imperialis) checks, make a few Command checks, and voila you're now a Lt. The problem is, some (alot) of the players may stop having fun when half the game comes down to positioning your NPC squads. They could start taking command of their own squads, but then it runs the risk of not being able to help fellow players effectively as the ranges increase exponentially.

If you must have numbers, doesn't RT have a book containing similar information? Just come up with a few ratings, and pit them against each other, applying situational modifiers and bonuses from related command checks.

It would be interesting to see OW turn into a "social" game, where the PCs are officers having to deal with the politics of war (trying to gain personal glory and a promotion, while not wasting Imperial resources, making rivals and what not), but once again, alot of players are not going to find that pacing fun. Espcially if they started play as just a grunt, and suddenly find that the XP they just spent the entire first half of the game is now diminished because they never see a posting at the front anymore.



#20 Cifer

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 10:17 AM

The Cain books note that most squads (well, Valhallan ones at least) have an Assistant Squad Leader, a corporal trained to take charge if the Sergeant becomes a casualty or the squad is split into fireteams.

Under normal rpg circumstances, I'd also say let them roleplay it out - however, we are talking about an army here. That means there will be a defined chain of command that is to be adhered to, exactly because when a squad loses its leader, command does not want them to "roleplay it out", but for the designated ASL to take charge immediately.






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