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#1 Algernon

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 07:42 PM

Hello, I'm new to Dust Tactics and am interested in the SSU. Any advice on building an SSU army that will balance well with the armies in the revised core set? Thanks!



#2 Major Mishap

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 08:47 PM

 You will need the Zverograd campaign to get a Koska and her walker as no other heroes are available.  Then then one box of each of the others (Battle squad, close combat squad, rifle squad and specialists) will bring you up to the points level of the other factions.



#3 daniello_s

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 11:14 PM

Major Mishap said:

 You will need the Zverograd campaign to get a Koska and her walker as no other heroes are available.  Then then one box of each of the others (Battle squad, close combat squad, rifle squad and specialists) will bring you up to the points level of the other factions.

And with this stuff you'll lose all the games against Axis from the Revised Core Set and half against Allied…

 

 



#4 Major Mishap

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 11:36 PM

 Very helpful :/ got a better choice?



#5 daniello_s

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 12:02 AM

Aye, wait till Choppers and rest of the walkers will be available and don't buy useless infantry units :D

 



#6 Major Mishap

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 12:06 AM

 The infantry are actually very good as every one can take on A3 enemy and dish out a lot of hurt to A2, it's the walkers that are rubbish.



#7 daniello_s

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 12:20 AM

Major Mishap said:

 The infantry are actually very good as every one can take on A3 enemy and dish out a lot of hurt to A2, it's the walkers that are rubbish.

Are we talking about same stuff? :D

1. Chinese Volunteers - Range 2, full squad 10d/A2 and 5/A3 - due to the lack of range will die before shoot at enemy and CC specialist are far more mobile than them so they will strike first and kill them instantly.

2. Drakoni - reasonable good against A2 but crap against A3. And they are expensive.

3. Fakyeli - the only decent option for SSU infantry but only close range unit. And slow… really slow. I would trade Assault plus add 5/6 points if I could have them with FAST.

4. Frontoviki - good at close range against A2 and sucks against A3 at range more than 2. No thank you.

5. Snipers - ok.

6. Observers - as above.

7. Ohotniki - same as Frontoviki.

8. Medvedi  - standard (almost) command squad. Decent if you need it.

 

So at the moment how do you want to deal with enemy A3 infantry and walkers with above choices. Even enemy A2 infantry can be a problem as it has far greater range.

 



#8 Jubby

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 01:34 AM

You probably have to wait for drakoni to be able to join them as a single model to units. And hero pack with 2 heroes that are playable. Both pilots are crap at the moment.



#9 Major Mishap

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 03:26 AM

daniello_s said:

Major Mishap said:

 

 The infantry are actually very good as every one can take on A3 enemy and dish out a lot of hurt to A2, it's the walkers that are rubbish.

 

 

Are we talking about same stuff? :D

1. Chinese Volunteers - Range 2, full squad 10d/A2 and 5/A3 - due to the lack of range will die before shoot at enemy and CC specialist are far more mobile than them so they will strike first and kill them instantly.

2. Drakoni - reasonable good against A2 but crap against A3. And they are expensive.

3. Fakyeli - the only decent option for SSU infantry but only close range unit. And slow… really slow. I would trade Assault plus add 5/6 points if I could have them with FAST.

4. Frontoviki - good at close range against A2 and sucks against A3 at range more than 2. No thank you.

5. Snipers - ok.

6. Observers - as above.

7. Ohotniki - same as Frontoviki.

8. Medvedi  - standard (almost) command squad. Decent if you need it.

 

So at the moment how do you want to deal with enemy A3 infantry and walkers with above choices. Even enemy A2 infantry can be a problem as it has far greater range.

 

Have you played with them yet or are these armchair general assumptions?   I've played several times now with them and have no problems apart from dealing with enemy armour as I'm used to playing Axis and their abundance of panzerfausts.  On paper they may look rubbish but they seem to be working for me in the game.  As for the Chinese they are brilliant 12 points for 5 shots and 5 CC attacks = 1 dead expensive A3 unit.



#10 daniello_s

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 04:18 AM

I've played similar Axis and Allied units instead of term so I can see what are they worthy.

I've played Sturmpioniere instead of Fakyeli and I know the are far better than their SSU counterparts (and Fakyeli are better than other SSU units).

I've played Recon Grenadiers instead of Frontoviki (guess which ones are better) etc.

 

As for Chinese guys example - if opponent allow you to assault him with those guys then he is a real newbie.

 



#11 Major Mishap

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 06:54 AM

daniello_s said:

I've played similar Axis and Allied units instead of term so I can see what are they worthy.

I've played Sturmpioniere instead of Fakyeli and I know the are far better than their SSU counterparts (and Fakyeli are better than other SSU units).

I've played Recon Grenadiers instead of Frontoviki (guess which ones are better) etc.

 

As for Chinese guys example - if opponent allow you to assault him with those guys then he is a real newbie.

 

 

That's a bit harsh, nobody can control the whole game every turn.  On every turn you will have a decision to make on what unit to activate and prioritise, for example, your rattler has the chance to shoot down a chopper or fire at the Chinese who are ready to attack your Grim Reapers - what do you do?  Nothing to do with being a newbie.

No units are identical and one has to be better than the other and this may depend on the situation anyway, so it's difficult to compare so comparing them has little merit.



#12 daniello_s

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 07:19 AM

Reality is always harsh my friend :D

Anyway we need to wait for A3 SSU infantry so this fraction could really compete with Axis in the infantry area.



#13 AngryMojo

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 08:44 AM

 Don't underestimate the value of numbers.  One of the largest reasons the Soviets were able to repel the Germans during WWII was their willingness to send wave after wave of barely trained infantry at their opponents, even to the point of having more men than weapons.  Across the board, SSU units are cheaper than their counterparts in both the axis and the allies.  Chinese Volunteers may have a reduced range, but cost 75% of what a squad of Recon Grenadiers will set you back.  This winds up holding true with pretty much all the units, and in the cramped, close quarters fighting that is Dust Tactics if you know how to hop from cover to cover that reduced range isn't very much of a handicap at all.  Add the agility to the Chinese Volunteers and you have a very effective anti-infantry squad for dirt cheap that can fight inside a building like nobody's business.  Point for point, they're a huge bargain.  They have the same threat range as a squad of Zombies with half the hitting power but for about a third the price.

 

As an SSU player, you should always be out activating your opponent thanks to your cheap units.  It's easy to get distracted by the shiny toys, and yes the Axis units are superior to yours.  Superior in almost every way, but the Axis pays for it with points.  Learn to cover hop and negate their advantage of range and you'll go very far.  That's what miniatures games are all about, situational awareness and playing to your strengths while you play on your opponent's weaknesses.



#14 LotusPwn3r

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 01:23 PM

I agree with every word you've posted, AngryMojo.

Now if FFG would just allow me to buy 4 or 5 squads of Chinese Volunteers w/o having to drop the money on all those transport 'copters, I'd be one happy camper…



#15 AngryMojo

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 02:11 PM

LotusPwn3r said:

Now if FFG would just allow me to buy 4 or 5 squads of Chinese Volunteers w/o having to drop the money on all those transport 'copters, I'd be one happy camper…

I'm really hoping they do as well.  My zombies need to eat, and they're the cheapest meal out there.



#16 LotusPwn3r

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 03:39 PM

And an hour later, your zombies would be hungry again.

But then again, aren't they always?

Heh.



#17 AngryMojo

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 03:58 PM

LotusPwn3r said:

And an hour later, your zombies would be hungry again.

But then again, aren't they always?

Heh.

Ba-dum tish!



#18 daniello_s

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 09:30 PM

Right lads, I was thinking how would I start SSU army and here is my list (300 points limit):

1. Yakov - unfortunately almost a MUST HAVE choice in SSU, allows you to strike first before enemy

2. Fakyeli - decent choice, Yakov gonna join them.

3. 2x Snipers - they will try to pick out enemy specialist from units.

4. Rifle Squad - I'm not great fun of them but I think they are better than Battle Squad)

5. Nastasia - good dakka-dakka walker with good range

6. Natasha - grenade weapon with All In One? Oh yeah…

7. 2x Burner - they will try to inflict as much damage as possible before shot down and allow to rest of the army reach the enemy.

300/300

I'm kind of afraid if there is enough anti-tank punch here but looks solid for SSU standards.

 



#19 deedob

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 01:42 AM

daniello_s said:

Major Mishap said:

 

 The infantry are actually very good as every one can take on A3 enemy and dish out a lot of hurt to A2, it's the walkers that are rubbish.

 

 

Are we talking about same stuff? :D

1. Chinese Volunteers - Range 2, full squad 10d/A2 and 5/A3 - due to the lack of range will die before shoot at enemy and CC specialist are far more mobile than them so they will strike first and kill them instantly.

2. Drakoni - reasonable good against A2 but crap against A3. And they are expensive.

3. Fakyeli - the only decent option for SSU infantry but only close range unit. And slow… really slow. I would trade Assault plus add 5/6 points if I could have them with FAST.

4. Frontoviki - good at close range against A2 and sucks against A3 at range more than 2. No thank you.

5. Snipers - ok.

6. Observers - as above.

7. Ohotniki - same as Frontoviki.

8. Medvedi  - standard (almost) command squad. Decent if you need it.

 

So at the moment how do you want to deal with enemy A3 infantry and walkers with above choices. Even enemy A2 infantry can be a problem as it has far greater range.

 

 

Yeah… i believe you have not played them.

The SSU does not have a lot of range for any of it's units, be it infantry or walkers. However, they are the only faction that have adequate transports. You HAVE to play that to your advantage and you definitely need to take that into account.

The Frontoviki and the Ohotniki can both be dropped smack down in the middle of a fray with the troop transport, making their lack of range a side note. I have seen an allied player's plan completely crumble when some Chinese volunteers landed right next to their BBQ squad with Bazooka Joe attached…

The BBQ squad fled into a building rather than face the volunteers. They were stronger than the Chinese, but if they stayed there to fight them, they would've had to face what was left of them PLUS the transport itself which would have plowed through them.
There was no point in risking about 50 points of troops (BBQ + Joe) to fight the 12 points (from memory) chineese volunteers…

The SSU infantry currently don't have any problem, even against most armour 3.
They DO have a problem in the anti-walker department. They really need the Gunship to stand a chance against the axis and allies heavies and the airborne walker transport (and it's walker).
The Gunships are going to be very difficult for the allies and the axis. The SSU artillery is going to be the best one there is among all three factions: strong firepower and no reload from what i've seen.

 

As it is *right now* the SSU can fight a good match against a core set's axis or allies. It's going to be much tougher against a customized army.



#20 daniello_s

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 02:08 AM

deedob said:

daniello_s said:

 

Major Mishap said:

 

 The infantry are actually very good as every one can take on A3 enemy and dish out a lot of hurt to A2, it's the walkers that are rubbish.

 

 

Are we talking about same stuff? :D

1. Chinese Volunteers - Range 2, full squad 10d/A2 and 5/A3 - due to the lack of range will die before shoot at enemy and CC specialist are far more mobile than them so they will strike first and kill them instantly.

2. Drakoni - reasonable good against A2 but crap against A3. And they are expensive.

3. Fakyeli - the only decent option for SSU infantry but only close range unit. And slow… really slow. I would trade Assault plus add 5/6 points if I could have them with FAST.

4. Frontoviki - good at close range against A2 and sucks against A3 at range more than 2. No thank you.

5. Snipers - ok.

6. Observers - as above.

7. Ohotniki - same as Frontoviki.

8. Medvedi  - standard (almost) command squad. Decent if you need it.

 

So at the moment how do you want to deal with enemy A3 infantry and walkers with above choices. Even enemy A2 infantry can be a problem as it has far greater range.

 

 

 

 

Yeah… i believe you have not played them.

The SSU does not have a lot of range for any of it's units, be it infantry or walkers. However, they are the only faction that have adequate transports. You HAVE to play that to your advantage and you definitely need to take that into account.

The Frontoviki and the Ohotniki can both be dropped smack down in the middle of a fray with the troop transport, making their lack of range a side note. I have seen an allied player's plan completely crumble when some Chinese volunteers landed right next to their BBQ squad with Bazooka Joe attached…

The BBQ squad fled into a building rather than face the volunteers. They were stronger than the Chinese, but if they stayed there to fight them, they would've had to face what was left of them PLUS the transport itself which would have plowed through them.
There was no point in risking about 50 points of troops (BBQ + Joe) to fight the 12 points (from memory) chineese volunteers…

The SSU infantry currently don't have any problem, even against most armour 3.
They DO have a problem in the anti-walker department. They really need the Gunship to stand a chance against the axis and allies heavies and the airborne walker transport (and it's walker).
The Gunships are going to be very difficult for the allies and the axis. The SSU artillery is going to be the best one there is among all three factions: strong firepower and no reload from what i've seen.

 

As it is *right now* the SSU can fight a good match against a core set's axis or allies. It's going to be much tougher against a customized army.

 

If the Allied player was so kind enough to outstreched his troops without dealing with chopper first then that his problem.

Any smart player would destroy chopper first as it is still godd dakka-platform and can damage a lot any infantry unit without a doubt.






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