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Nikita has been nerfed


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#1 fhaugh

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 02:49 PM

 Sorry guys, I just received a reply from the the rule guys at FFG.  The Nikita's weapons are artillery weapons and so you must spend an action to reload them before they can be fired again.  I think with this clarification to Nikita is now over priced.  For 4 points less the Lothar has a better main weapon, and gets a secondary antipersonnel/AA weapon.  The airlift ability is of questionable usefulness, and the assault only goes so far.

Someone please tell me I'm wrong about this…



#2 Loophole Master

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 05:41 PM

That's nonsense. Being an Artillery weapon has nothing to do with having Reload or not. See the Steel Rain, its artillery weapon doesn't have Reload, but its secondary non-artillery weapon does. And specially after seeing Paolo explaining the no-Reload on the Konigslothar, I wonder if this is a case of a disconnect between the Dust Games and FFG.



#3 Major Mishap

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 09:18 PM

 What on earth made you go and ask?  But as you say, it will be crap for the points if it does have Reload, assault and airlift are pretty much useless for an artillery walker.  The problem is, isn't Nikita the only long range choice and therefore almost a compulsory army choice?

I'm pretty much totally pissed off with FFG now as they have zero quality control and proof reading, have never know a company like it.



#4 daniello_s

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 11:16 PM

That's a bulls**t! Come on guys…

First FFG did a crap choice with airlifted walkers, now they nerfed Nikita…

What's the next step? Nerfing choppers?  Even now SSU can't compare to the Axis and nerfing Nikita would make it even bigger…



#5 FlorisH

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 11:47 PM

There is only one ruling by FFG that isn't printed in a Q&A and that is the Hans grenate werfer ignoring cover.
Other than that the FFG rules that people get as answers are ignored.

And that will include this one. This ruling now means that all Artillery weapons have reload.



#6 fhaugh

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 01:03 AM

Loophole Master said:

That's nonsense. Being an Artillery weapon has nothing to do with having Reload or not. See the Steel Rain, its artillery weapon doesn't have Reload, but its secondary non-artillery weapon does. And specially after seeing Paolo explaining the no-Reload on the Konigslothar, I wonder if this is a case of a disconnect between the Dust Games and FFG.

Re-read the rules.  Artillery weapons that have limited ammo are excluded for the reload rule.  Steel rain doesn't need to reload because it only has 4 shots.  Make that one shot if you want it to actually do anything.

I agree that it is a steaming pile of ****, and I really hope they reverse their ruling.



#7 Peacekeeper_b

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 01:38 AM

fhaugh said:

Loophole Master said:

 

That's nonsense. Being an Artillery weapon has nothing to do with having Reload or not. See the Steel Rain, its artillery weapon doesn't have Reload, but its secondary non-artillery weapon does. And specially after seeing Paolo explaining the no-Reload on the Konigslothar, I wonder if this is a case of a disconnect between the Dust Games and FFG.

 

 

Re-read the rules.  Artillery weapons that have limited ammo are excluded for the reload rule.  Steel rain doesn't need to reload because it only has 4 shots.  Make that one shot if you want it to actually do anything.

I agree that it is a steaming pile of ****, and I really hope they reverse their ruling.

Just re-read the rules, did I miss the part that siad you have to reload a artillery weapon?



#8 Peacekeeper_b

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 03:20 AM

REVISED CORE SET RULES PAGE 21

[Weapon Na me]: RELO AD (Skill)
A unit with this skill must spend more time reloading before it can fire that weapon again –
artillery weapons often fall into this category. A unit performs one Skill action to
reload its weapon. Place the included “Loaded” token on the unit card to
indicate that the weapon is loaded. After performing this action, the unit can fire
the weapon. At the beginning of each game, all weapons are loaded. See “Reloadable
Weapons” on page 25 for more details.

I would like to point out the part that says artillery weapons often fall into this category meanign not all artillery weapons do.

REVISED CORE SET RULES PAGE 25

Reloadable Weapons
While most weapons in Dust Tactics store their bullets inside automatic cartridge
magazines, some ammunition (such as artillery shells) is too bulky for that.
Weapons are indicated as reloadable weapons at the bottom of the unit card. Reloadable
weapons begin the game loaded. Place the included “Loaded” token on the unit card to
indicate that the weapon is loaded.
When the unit fires this weapon, remove the token from the unit’s card to
indicate that the weapon is empty. To reload (and replace the token on the
unit card), the unit must perform one Skill action. A unit can fire and reload its
weapon during the same round, which would use both the unit’s actions (see “[Weapon
Name]: Reload” on page 21).

It seems to me that the rules go out of their way to state teh not all artillery weapons have the reload trait/skill. In fact, it implies that only weapons with the listed indicator at the bottom of thier unit card have to reload.

So I am fine with a errata to one vehicle gaining reload, but not to all artillery weapons needing to be reloaded.

More information is on page 24 under LIMITED-AMMO WEAPONS.
 



#9 ??!

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 05:14 AM

On the other hand, the Revised Core Set Rules also state: "After artillery weapons fire, the unit must reload before it can fire that weapon again. This costs one Skill action. (see “Special Weapons” on page 24)." That's the last sentence on page 14, Artillery weapons.

So probably all Artillery weapons with unlimited ammo have to reload, but no one ever noticed because there was only one of them. FFG forgot about it as well and thus forgot to put the "Reload" ability on Nikita.
 



#10 blkdymnd

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 05:23 AM

Yep, read your core rules, there was no nerfing since they have to reload anyway.  Paolo's heavy is an unofficial model, so he can make it immune to reload because it will probably never be an official model.



#11 Gimp

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 06:37 AM

One section mentions artillery needing to reload, but the specific rules for artillery and Reload specify that not all artillery has to reload, and weapons that require Reload have it listed on their card.  The rules on Reload also state artillery weapons may follow the reload rule, which means it is not an automatic addition.  Limited ammunition artillery weapons can also be added that do require a Reload action, or that follow the Steel Rain's multiple single shot construction

Otherwise, the nebelwerfer would not need Reload printed on its unit card.



#12 blkdymnd

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 07:05 AM

Gimp said:

One section mentions artillery needing to reload, but the specific rules for artillery and Reload specify that not all artillery has to reload, and weapons that require Reload have it listed on their card.  The rules on Reload also state artillery weapons may follow the reload rule, which means it is not an automatic addition.  Limited ammunition artillery weapons can also be added that do require a Reload action, or that follow the Steel Rain's multiple single shot construction

Otherwise, the nebelwerfer would not need Reload printed on its unit card.

Can you quote a page?  Page 14 in the revised core rules says nothing about 'not all artillery'.  And the Nebelwerfer came out before the revised core rules, so at the time needed the reload term notated on it.  Now that the revised core is specific about how artillery weapons work, they may not feel it needs to be notated anymore.  That's just my speculation on their reasoning.



#13 Peacekeeper_b

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 07:17 AM

blkdymnd said:

Gimp said:

 

One section mentions artillery needing to reload, but the specific rules for artillery and Reload specify that not all artillery has to reload, and weapons that require Reload have it listed on their card.  The rules on Reload also state artillery weapons may follow the reload rule, which means it is not an automatic addition.  Limited ammunition artillery weapons can also be added that do require a Reload action, or that follow the Steel Rain's multiple single shot construction

Otherwise, the nebelwerfer would not need Reload printed on its unit card.

 

 

Can you quote a page?  Page 14 in the revised core rules says nothing about 'not all artillery'.  And the Nebelwerfer came out before the revised core rules, so at the time needed the reload term notated on it.  Now that the revised core is specific about how artillery weapons work, they may not feel it needs to be notated anymore.  That's just my speculation on their reasoning.

Indeed page 14 says that. Page 21 says something different (but I think page 14 takes precedence) and page 25 discusses reloading as an action.  What it is is rules that are not written well together. They need to remove the comment about artillery usually having the reload trait.

But it seems pretty clear, page 14. Artillery weapons need to reload. Makes them only slightly less appealing.



#14 Loophole Master

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 02:44 PM

But there's certainly no rule whatsoever stating that limited ammo artillery weapons DO NOT need to reload. So if the final absolute conclusion is that "artillery weapons need to reload", then the Steel Rain just got a whole lot crappier.

I for one certainly do not accept this A = Reload rule. The only weapons that need to reload are those that have the Reload skill listed. That's it.



#15 blkdymnd

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 02:54 PM

Loophole Master said:

But there's certainly no rule whatsoever stating that limited ammo artillery weapons DO NOT need to reload. So if the final absolute conclusion is that "artillery weapons need to reload", then the Steel Rain just got a whole lot crappier.

I for one certainly do not accept this A = Reload rule. The only weapons that need to reload are those that have the Reload skill listed. That's it.

You don't have to accept it, but it is the rule.  And yes, by rule, of you have rockets remaining a Steel Rain would have to reload.  As an allied player, not a huge deal.



#16 fhaugh

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 05:55 PM

Loophole Master said:

But there's certainly no rule whatsoever stating that limited ammo artillery weapons DO NOT need to reload. So if the final absolute conclusion is that "artillery weapons need to reload", then the Steel Rain just got a whole lot crappier.

I for one certainly do not accept this A = Reload rule. The only weapons that need to reload are those that have the Reload skill listed. That's it.

Page 5 of Operation Cyclone.  "The steel rain doesn't need a loaded token for it's 4 rockets since they are single use only."

 Also from that page, "- After using an artillery weapon, you must reload it before being able to use it again (if that weapon can be reloaded)"

 



#17 Lska

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 10:02 PM

 Argh argh argh, WTF are those boys in FFG thinking this is confusing and the airlifted walkers get crapier every day it seems..



#18 daniello_s

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 12:34 AM

Lska said:

 Argh argh argh, WTF are those boys in FFG thinking this is confusing and the airlifted walkers get crapier every day it seems..

Maybe they want to safe your wallet saying 'hey! our airlifted walkers are **** so you don't have to buy the box!' :D



#19 blkdymnd

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 04:28 AM

 Umm.. nothing confusing.  It's in the rules.  Try to remember that FFG do not develop the rules for Tactics, Dust Games does.  FFG does their best to resolve them via email (not always accurately), but ultimately it's on Dust Games to get them right. 



#20 Lska

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 05:16 AM

 And who does or not does misspints then?:D Why there is no reload action on the card if it needs to reload? Especially since Paolo's hvy panzer arty has NO special actions.






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