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Looks like this ain't landing at Gen Con…


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#1 Dulahan

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 05:53 AM

The announcement of the Beta pretty much puts a nail in the coffin of a Gen Con release.  August 24 end of Playtest timeframe.  Gen Con is August 16-19. 

 

No way any playtest stuff from that makes it into the book if it were to land at Gen Con.  This makes me sad, getting the new 40k game was always a big part of my Con experience in recent years.

 

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite_sec.asp?eidm=213&esem=1



#2 colonel blood

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 06:27 AM

I got to the download page before I realised you have to pay for it. For some reason I thought a half finished beta with no fluff would be free.



#3 signoftheserpent

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 06:35 AM

I've said it before, FFG simply do not have the manpwoer to cope with the release schedule they take on. I think this is very sad. To then ask that we pay them to do them a favour (which is what playtesting is, it's a task that's it's own reward where everyone wins) is outrageous. If they do not change this decision I will find myself reconsidering my decision to purchase the final product.



#4 ItsUncertainWho

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 07:38 AM

signoftheserpent said:

 

I've said it before, FFG simply do not have the manpwoer to cope with the release schedule they take on. I think this is very sad. To then ask that we pay them to do them a favour (which is what playtesting is, it's a task that's it's own reward where everyone wins) is outrageous. If they do not change this decision I will find myself reconsidering my decision to purchase the final product.

 

 

Copied from DrivethruRPG's page, highlighted for emphasis.

Only War is a Warhammer 40,000 roleplaying game in which players take on the roles of soldiers in the galaxy-spanning armies of the Imperium, and the Only War beta test is your chance to stand on the front lines of its development! As part of the Only War beta test, you’ll provide valuable reconnaissance for the war effort, as you help us to craft the best possible final product.

The Only War beta is a complete, 256-page playable version of Only War; the only difference is that it omits certain art pieces and background “flavor” that will be present in the final version. This product has already undergone extensive development, playtesting, and refinement, and we have no doubt that it’s ready to provide hours of enjoyment. What’s more, Only War beta test participants have an opportunity to experience the game months before they otherwise would!

As an added benefit, anyone who downloads the Only War beta will receive a $20 discount on the pdf version of the Only War Core Rulebook when it becomes available in the fall. Simply download the beta, and when the full rulebook goes live in a few months, you’ll receive the necessary coupon code.



#5 Kasatka

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 07:45 AM

ItsUncertainWho said:

signoftheserpent said:

 

I've said it before, FFG simply do not have the manpwoer to cope with the release schedule they take on. I think this is very sad. To then ask that we pay them to do them a favour (which is what playtesting is, it's a task that's it's own reward where everyone wins) is outrageous. If they do not change this decision I will find myself reconsidering my decision to purchase the final product.

 

 

Copied from DrivethruRPG's page, highlighted for emphasis.

Only War is a Warhammer 40,000 roleplaying game in which players take on the roles of soldiers in the galaxy-spanning armies of the Imperium, and the Only War beta test is your chance to stand on the front lines of its development! As part of the Only War beta test, you’ll provide valuable reconnaissance for the war effort, as you help us to craft the best possible final product.

The Only War beta is a complete, 256-page playable version of Only War; the only difference is that it omits certain art pieces and background “flavor” that will be present in the final version. This product has already undergone extensive development, playtesting, and refinement, and we have no doubt that it’s ready to provide hours of enjoyment. What’s more, Only War beta test participants have an opportunity to experience the game months before they otherwise would!

As an added benefit, anyone who downloads the Only War beta will receive a $20 discount on the pdf version of the Only War Core Rulebook when it becomes available in the fall. Simply download the beta, and when the full rulebook goes live in a few months, you’ll receive the necessary coupon code.

This assumes that we are happy to buy the PDF version of it. I personally cannot RP without a hard copy of a book in front of me, so now i cannot beta test the book i want to buy because i dont want to throw away extra money on a PDF i'll never use? Seems like a quick fire way to polarize FFG customers and segregate the gaming community.


Only the insane have strength enough to prosper.

Only those that prosper may truly judge what is sane.


#6 ItsUncertainWho

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 07:52 AM

Kasatka said:

This assumes that we are happy to buy the PDF version of it. I personally cannot RP without a hard copy of a book in front of me, so now i cannot beta test the book i want to buy because i dont want to throw away extra money on a PDF i'll never use? Seems like a quick fire way to polarize FFG customers and segregate the gaming community.

Then there is no loss for you anyway. You wouldn't normally get to beta test a printed book before you buy it, so there is no difference.



#7 Frankie

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 08:48 AM

Shame they're delaying it.

It's not *as bad* knowing the main book will be discounted, but still..



#8 signoftheserpent

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 09:29 AM

Frankie said:

Shame they're delaying it.

It's not *as bad* knowing the main book will be discounted, but still..

only a pdf will be discounted.

You get nothing if you want to buy the proper book, which is where your beta money will be going, from the sort of shops that FFG rely on to stock their stuff - particularly the sorts of products that can't exist as a pdf.

This last minute sop really does nothing to endear FFG to me. I have paid for 20 of their 40k books, and gladly, but I guess that entitles me to nothing.



#9 Ahadiel

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 12:19 PM

 I'd like to bring a little different perspective to this.  Fantasy Flight is releasing a steady stream of RPG books in one of the richest settings out there (there's been work produced in this universe since 1987).  They're a small company.  Why not lend a hand?   Not trying to force anyone's opinion, but why not be involved in helping out?  Personally I'm looking forward to having a chance to beta test this.  Any-who, keep up the good work FFG, I appreciate you giving me the ability to play in one of my very favorite fantasy settings ever.



#10 Bassemandrh

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 01:10 PM

Because they charge you 20 dollars for helping them?

I wouldn't mind helping them for free though. Let me have a beta version of the rules and then pay full price for the finished product when that is.

If i help them now im almost forced to buy the PDF, otherwise i won't be getting a discount on the product. Its not even a real discount as im just paying some in advance.



#11 The Russian

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 01:16 PM

I'm seriously considering it, and I will buy the book either way. I agree they're doing as good of a job as can be expected.



#12 H.B.M.C.

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 06:50 PM

"I got to the download page before I realised you have to pay for it. For some reason I thought a half finished beta with no fluff would be free."

The fact that you have to pay for it jarred me a little as well. I didn't see the 'discount to the full version' at first, but I'm glad they're at least doing that (Catalyst did the same within with the BattleTech RPG). One thing I will say though is that it's not a 'half finished beta with no fluff'. It's the full book, less the "General Warhammer 40,000" background chapter and the "Spinward Front" chapter. Everything else is there, including the artwork and layout, just reduced to B&W to save space. It's a complete game.

 

"I've said it before, FFG simply do not have the manpwoer to cope with the release schedule they take on."

And just like every other time you've said it, you're still wrong! 


BYE
 


Matt Eustace. Contributing Author Credits: Church of the Damned, The Lathe Worlds, The Lathe Worlds - The Lost Dataslate, Only War Core Rulebook, Hammer of the Emperor, Shield of Humanity, Tome of Fate, Tome of Blood, Tome of Excess and Tome of Decay.

The views expressed in this post are my own. I do not speak for or on behalf of Fantasy Flight Games.


#13 bladerunner_35

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 08:08 PM

 At first the text about getting a discount on the finished product wasn't there and I was all like "wtf?!". 

Then they added the text and I was like "hell yea!". 

I have absolutely nothing against this and in fact I applaud it. A semi-open beta test of a 40k rpg core rulebook is unheard of and to be frank, much needed. Especially considering the whine that follows every major release as surely as spring follows winter. Now is our chance to correct the glaringly obvious errors before they make it to print!

Now is the time!

Now is the place!

For the Emprah!!

 

Edit: am I the only one that feels like this (and possibly Black Crusade) is finally the product that FFG wanted to do all along?


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#14 Sister Callidia

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 08:43 PM

I find the notion to do an online Beta test an intriguing one. But it will give us an even better book in the end since the more eyes see errors, rules that prove broken and such the better. Think of it as the before errata print :)



#15 Kasatka

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 08:55 PM

ItsUncertainWho said:

Kasatka said:

 

This assumes that we are happy to buy the PDF version of it. I personally cannot RP without a hard copy of a book in front of me, so now i cannot beta test the book i want to buy because i dont want to throw away extra money on a PDF i'll never use? Seems like a quick fire way to polarize FFG customers and segregate the gaming community.

 

 

Then there is no loss for you anyway. You wouldn't normally get to beta test a printed book before you buy it, so there is no difference.

No i'm saying that is a sure fire way to split the community up. Chances are that the sorts of gamers who are happy to use PDFs and play with laptops or computers in front of them are an entirely different breed of gamer to those who desire a physical copy of a book, and that they likely want different things from a game. To allow only the digital players to have input on your beta is wrong to me.

I can't see any reason they couldn't have come to an agreement to have the $20 discount applicable on the hard copy too.


Only the insane have strength enough to prosper.

Only those that prosper may truly judge what is sane.


#16 bladerunner_35

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 09:31 PM

Kasatka said:

ItsUncertainWho said:

 

Kasatka said:

 

This assumes that we are happy to buy the PDF version of it. I personally cannot RP without a hard copy of a book in front of me, so now i cannot beta test the book i want to buy because i dont want to throw away extra money on a PDF i'll never use? Seems like a quick fire way to polarize FFG customers and segregate the gaming community.

 

 

Then there is no loss for you anyway. You wouldn't normally get to beta test a printed book before you buy it, so there is no difference.

 

 

No i'm saying that is a sure fire way to split the community up. Chances are that the sorts of gamers who are happy to use PDFs and play with laptops or computers in front of them are an entirely different breed of gamer to those who desire a physical copy of a book, and that they likely want different things from a game. To allow only the digital players to have input on your beta is wrong to me.

I can't see any reason they couldn't have come to an agreement to have the $20 discount applicable on the hard copy too.

This is completely unverifiable. I am sure that there is a general difference between people prefering hard copies and people prefering pdf:s but assuming that that means that there will be any meningful difference in their feedback on rules errors is more than a stretch. 


it takes only a small amount of charitable reading to make the internet dramatically more palatable.

#17 Librarian

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 09:36 PM

 I think alot of people would want to have a hard copy on the table but also like to have a pdf for those situations where the book is in use or your just not near it. 

 



#18 H.B.M.C.

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 10:50 PM

I have a PDF of everything for reference, plus sometimes I need two or more sections of the book open at once.

Sad that this won't be making Gen-Con. I was really looking forward to getting a copy, but if the beta makes for a more polished game (not that my sections need any polishing (/obvious bravado!)), then that's a good thing.

BYE


Matt Eustace. Contributing Author Credits: Church of the Damned, The Lathe Worlds, The Lathe Worlds - The Lost Dataslate, Only War Core Rulebook, Hammer of the Emperor, Shield of Humanity, Tome of Fate, Tome of Blood, Tome of Excess and Tome of Decay.

The views expressed in this post are my own. I do not speak for or on behalf of Fantasy Flight Games.


#19 kwinland

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 02:05 AM

H.B.M.C. said:

I have a PDF of everything for reference, plus sometimes I need two or more sections of the book open at once.

Sad that this won't be making Gen-Con. I was really looking forward to getting a copy, but if the beta makes for a more polished game (not that my sections need any polishing (/obvious bravado!)), then that's a good thing.

BYE

 

This  may *still* be out at GenCon….

 

I think that this may be a marketing tool.  All of their 40K games have been released in the "Fall" - they all also have been available at GenCon (they enter the distribution stream sometime Sept-Nov).  If they are THIS far in the layout with the rules (sans fluff and whatnot), then they are probably days/weeks away from sending it to the printer.  They have NEVER had an open Beta for ANY of their previous games.  This may simply be a good mechanism for spreading the word and generating interest before release, especially if they are worried about soft sales at first.

 

Seriously - an open Beta THIS large, with potentially hundreds or thousands of participants?  Aside from the CHAOS, it would take *many* months to deal with communications and corrections, especially since it is open to ANYONE regardless of gaming or rules experience.

 

Cheers,

 

Ken

 

 



#20 No:12

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 02:39 AM

Hi,

My first response was similar to Sister Callida, the idea of the finished product being more thoroughly tested for typos and rules issues by the community that would inevitably be frustrated by these errors was quite pleasing. I can understand folks being torn about paying for the Beta pdf, then paying again for a hard book copy. I also prefer the feel/look/smell,etc of a proper book. However, you'll also be paying for the ability to actually play the game ahead of the release. If you can grab four or five decent sessions of IG spec ops action before the book is out, $20 doesnt seem like too much to me.






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