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Chem Geld?


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#1 SlamDance

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 08:02 PM

 I stumbled across the Chem Geld trait in the main rulebook today, and the description I read seemed as if it was written for Marines; between their chemical reconditioning and warrior-monk ascetism, I figured it was a natural. Even down to the Insanity point.

Except it's not part of the Space Marine starting package.

Does this mean… a Space Marine can pull?

Or even… be pulled?!

(With apologies to those of the female persuasion.)



#2 Guest_Not In Sample_*

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 09:24 PM

 Well, if you think it is totally awesome to play a eunuch Space Marine, go for it.

If you would find it funny to force people who don't want to to play a eunuch Space Marine, GO AWAY!



#3 SlamDance

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 10:14 PM

It's not so much about awesome or funny, more that - as far as I was aware - one of the canon aspects of Space Marines is that while they appear to suffer from extreme cases of testosterone poisoning, the process that makes them what they are abolishes sexual impulses.

Is that incorrect?



#4 Guest_Not In Sample_*

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 10:20 PM

 Hey, if you can actually find a page reference for it…



#5 SlamDance

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 10:34 PM

Can't point any reference in particular out, no. It may have been something I took from reading Ian Watson's novel Space Marine many moons ago.



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Posted 21 June 2012 - 10:35 PM

 Incidentally, this is part 47 of a loooonnnggggg conversation, so I apologise for seeming terse.

The long and the short of it is that I don't think sexless Marines are cool, certainly not as cool as the fun to be had if they are functional.

AT THE VERY LEAST, the fact that is is never actually mentioned despite the very many words written about Marines kinda implies that they don't want to talk about it.

And, I mean, I seriously don't think GW want to come out and say Marines dicks don't work. Imagine the forum fodder!



#7 borithan

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 11:54 PM

Chem Geld would be perfect for Space Marines in my opinion. The process doesn't suggests anything external being removed (ie, Chem Geld doesn't make someone a eunuch). As far as I am aware the process is meant to use drugs to essentially destroy (or shut down) the parts of the brain which govern physical desire. While I don't think the same process is used on Marines, the mechanical effects (cannot be seduced, gain 1 Insanity point… isn't there something about charm checks being harder if being used on the character?) seem perfect for Marines. They do not have sexual impulses, and frankly, the idea that someone who has gone through the process of becoming a Marine is not unhinged enough to get 1 measly Insanity point just seems a bit daft to me.

As far as evidence that they don't have physical desires: Various of the novels have suggested that Space Marines can recognise physical beauty, just that it doesn't really engender any sort of reaction from them. As much as someone could say "I can see why people find that person attractive, but they don't really do it for me", except on a much broader sense.



#8 Guest_Not In Sample_*

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 12:26 AM

 Well, like I say, do you think it would be a good idea for Games Workshop to say that Space Marines dicks don't work?

--

It would also be very boring. Every book you have ever read is a love story for a reason.



#9 Decessor

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 12:37 AM

I view the lack of chem geld in the Space Marine starting talents as being there for much the same reason it isn't for the Ork Freebooter class in Rogue Trader: being uninterested in sex is normal for them and not something that has to be tacked on aftterwards. Space marines are described in a few novels as having appreciation for aesthetics but they either don't have sex drives, they suppress them totally or the drive is rediverted into martial pursuits.

I completely disagree with the idea of handing out Chem Geld to space marines because I find it unnecessary and they are *not* especially resistant to being charmed or befuddled (see: renegade marines). Plus, the Litany of Hate talent relies on a charm test to function. Chem Geld would mechanically make this *less* likely to work on space marines, when if anything they should be even more prone to hatred of the enemy.



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Posted 22 June 2012 - 12:47 AM

 I dunno. I think people have real trouble remembering that Marines are supposed to be cool, and more importantly cool to the people who buy Marines.



#11 Morangias

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 08:30 AM

Decessor said:

I view the lack of chem geld in the Space Marine starting talents as being there for much the same reason it isn't for the Ork Freebooter class in Rogue Trader: being uninterested in sex is normal for them and not something that has to be tacked on aftterwards. Space marines are described in a few novels as having appreciation for aesthetics but they either don't have sex drives, they suppress them totally or the drive is rediverted into martial pursuits.

I completely disagree with the idea of handing out Chem Geld to space marines because I find it unnecessary and they are *not* especially resistant to being charmed or befuddled (see: renegade marines). Plus, the Litany of Hate talent relies on a charm test to function. Chem Geld would mechanically make this *less* likely to work on space marines, when if anything they should be even more prone to hatred of the enemy.

This is how I see it as well. You don't need to put Chem Geld on something that's inherently asexual. Also, because Chem Geld makes people somewhat psychically dysfunctional (harder to get into their heads, 1 Insanity point), and Space Marines are supposed to be flawless paragons.


There is no truth in flesh, only betrayal.

There is no strenght in flesh, only weakness.
There is no constancy in flesh, only decay.
There is no certainty in flesh but death.


#12 Guest_Not In Sample_*

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 08:51 AM

 I'm not crazy in thinking that for the Marine fanboy on the street Marines being neutered ken dolls is not exactly going to be a selling point am I?



#13 ItsUncertainWho

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 09:30 AM

AluminiumWolf said:

 I'm not crazy in thinking that for the Marine fanboy on the street Marines being neutered ken dolls is not exactly going to be a selling point am I?

Space Marine sexuality has never entered into any level of thought for me, or anyone I know who is a fan of 40K. I have always looked at them as so heavily modified as to be asexual, and this doesn't bother me. It speaks to their removal and separation from humanity.



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Posted 22 June 2012 - 09:50 AM

 Well, I think the fact that not once in twenty five years has it actually been explicitly stated that Marines are castrated kind of implies that they don't think people would be okay with it.



#15 Unholy_Ravager

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 12:00 PM

I've always assumed that will all the gene therapy, implants, and hormones, that space marines are probably shooting blanks so to speak. The parts are there, they might even still function, but reproduction is out of the question. Then coupled with hypno-therapy and what not and the desire is probably gone as well. 



#16 Morangias

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 12:36 PM

AluminiumWolf said:

 Well, I think the fact that not once in twenty five years has it actually been explicitly stated that Marines are castrated kind of implies that they don't think people would be okay with it.

I love how you constructed an argumentum ad populum out of a non-sequitur.


There is no truth in flesh, only betrayal.

There is no strenght in flesh, only weakness.
There is no constancy in flesh, only decay.
There is no certainty in flesh but death.


#17 Adeptus-B

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 04:22 PM

My take on it is that, since some Space Marines have historically been seduced by the lure of Slaanesh, they are not inherently asexual, even thought they are normally much too disciplined to display interest in sex. So, I agree with them not starting with chem-geld.



#18 SlamDance

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 09:30 PM

AluminiumWolf said:

 Incidentally, this is part 47 of a loooonnnggggg conversation, so I apologise for seeming terse.

The long and the short of it is that I don't think sexless Marines are cool, certainly not as cool as the fun to be had if they are functional.

AT THE VERY LEAST, the fact that is is never actually mentioned despite the very many words written about Marines kinda implies that they don't want to talk about it.

And, I mean, I seriously don't think GW want to come out and say Marines dicks don't work. Imagine the forum fodder!

I forgive you, Wolf. I probably should have searched the forum first!

And good point about the forum fodder!



#19 SlamDance

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 09:31 PM

AluminiumWolf said:

 I dunno. I think people have real trouble remembering that Marines are supposed to be cool, and more importantly cool to the people who buy Marines.

Point.



#20 SlamDance

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 09:35 PM

AluminiumWolf said:

 Well, I think the fact that not once in twenty five years has it actually been explicitly stated that Marines are castrated kind of implies that they don't think people would be okay with it.

Fair point - I guess to my mind, it seemed odd that after that long period of not dealing with the… sticker aspects of human interaction, a Space Marine roleplaying game is, even for one paragraph, addressing physical desire directly.

I probably wouldn't have even given it thought myself had I not seen that Talent right there on the page.

Actually, take that back, I kind of had when thinking about Female Space Marines, but that's a whole 'nother thread (which, believe it or not, ties into my thinking about Female Transformers).






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