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some questions about kaali


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#1 grimcete

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 12:17 PM

hello , i am new at this forum and my english is not good , well i have some questions about the kaali ,  it seems to be a heavy/automatic weaponat the

manual , so i had a discusion last day while playing with some friends about how many dices do you need to do the atack roll , i think that i hace to use

5 cause its an automatic weapon but my friends said that i have to use 4 dices , so thats my question :D



#2 Miah999

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:53 PM

Your answer is in the current FAQ (http://www.fantasyfl...ser-FAQv1_0.pdf)

Also more official answers can be found here: http://miah000.blogs...nd-answers.html

Here is your specific answer:

The Kaali uses 0 dice. From the FAQ:

"Q: “Kaali”. Does its effect replace the regular attack (no
attack roll, just place a meteop token) or is it in addition
(resolve a regular attack, then place a meteop token)?


A: Kaali allows Irishka to place a meteop token. This is the
entirety of this weapon’s attack."

 

 

FYI Automaic triat normally = 5 dice not 4.



#3 Error 718

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 01:43 AM

i was wondering abit about this, i take it she can fire that weapon at someone and cause 3 auto hits?



#4 Katsuyori

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 09:32 PM

Error 718 said:

i was wondering abit about this, i take it she can fire that weapon at someone and cause 3 auto hits?

Exactly. But I think Kaali does not really target a character but a cirlce. This would, in theory, render counterattacks impossible. Other opinions?



#5 ??!

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 01:09 AM

I'd say you are right, but it was ruled otherwise. The same question was asked to FFG and officially answered (They were actually answering questions at that time!) regarding Ramirez' weapon that also targets a circle.

Q: Ramirez' Weapon (Mark 19 Mod A1). When it attacks, does it count as "targeting" models he rolls against (for the purpose of effects requiring a Mental Duel before targeting, such as the Masque of Samhain)? On the same token, can you make a Counter attack with this weapon? Can it be used while affected by Patmos Amulet?
A: If the chosen circle contains a character, then it counts as targeting that character. You can launch a counterattack with the Mark 19 Mod A1 and it can be used while affected by the Patmos Amulet.

As you see, "if the chosen circle contains a character, then it counts as targeting that character." I have to admit I don't think this makes any sense as it contradicts the ability of the weapon (or weapons as it also affects Kaali).
 



#6 Katsuyori

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 11:04 PM

Thanks for the info, ??!. It´s quite irritating, though… It seems, as you mentioned, to contradict the basic rules.



#7 ??!

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 02:36 AM

I wonder why they even invented weapons that target circles instead of characters only to rule later that those weapons also target characters. But it was one of several answers some time ago that just didn't make much sense. There was quite a discussion in the topic "Rules questions and answers from FFG".



#8 Miah999

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 03:55 AM

I think the problem stems from a lack of commuication among the developers both at FFG and with anyone who worked on the original concepts either from France or has now left FFG. Often (when we do get answers) the person answering is not the person that "invented" the item in question, and I think that always lead to problems, you cannot give a ruling without knowing the intent of a specific rule, and you usually can't know that unless you wrote it.

For example, when I was compiling answers for the blog I noticed that whenever the answers contradicted themselves i.e. when it comes to Doom and Smoke, it was because Andrew Meredith had given a different answer then Adam Sadler.

Just my theory though…



#9 ??!

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 05:03 AM

I think you are right as usual, lack of communication is a severe problem when answering rules questions. But in my opinion, this runs even deeper. Ruling that a weapon targets a character when the special rules for that weapon clearly state that it targets a circle (as opposed to targeting a character) actually negates the special rules. I'd say that this even shows a lack of knowledge or understanding for the rules.



#10 Miah999

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 05:47 AM

First let me say that I appreciate how hard the folks at FFG work, and this is not ment to insult anyone, but ??! is right. The lack of knowledge stems from lack of play/study time. The guys and gals that work on TH also work on dozens of FFG's other titles, some of which are much bigger sellers, and inherintly must take priority. The Spainard is not going to want staff diverted from Arkham Horror (for example) to work on TH FAQ/mechanics issues. That's just the way things are.

So there is no staff or for that matter a single person devoted to TH. In other words, there is no subject matter expert employed by FFG for TH.

Maybe I can get premission to write an "official" FAQ, with community imput, then have FFG publish it.

I'll see what I can do in a day or so.



#11 Moebius

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 09:00 PM

I second the idea! I wrote a letter like a year ago to FFG suggesting just the same, that FFG proposed a moderator from the fanbase that can compile and has some "powers" to create FAQs and official rulings. As usual I got no answer.

I hope you get heard Miah!



#12 ??!

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 05:25 AM

First, I'd also like to point out that I never meant to insult or accuse anyone but just to state what in my opinion looked like the core of the problem. So if anyone felt insulted by my comment, I apologize.

Second, I absolutely support the idea of an "official" fan-made FAQ that included questions answered by Miah or discussed here in the community. Especially after the release of the Shogunate characters and Natalya, there were a lot of questions asked but never officially answered. I remember writing to FFG 3 times or so.

An important point to consider is that no one would have to worry about a group of fans or even a single fan changing the game rules as the only intent is to answer questions and find rulings based on the actual rules and corresponding to the actual rules.



#13 PsychoWolf

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 08:58 PM

??! said:

As you see, "if the chosen circle contains a character, then it counts as targeting that character." I have to admit I don't think this makes any sense as it contradicts the ability of the weapon (or weapons as it also affects Kaali).

I don't think this really contradicts the ability of the weapon, 'cause with those weapons you can also target a circle adjacent to a character. Especially with Ramirez' M-19 you still causes wounds.



#14 ??!

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 01:10 AM

My point is (or was) that the game designers first introduced weapons that target circles but not characters and thus follow different rules than other weapons. After that someone ruled that targeting a circle counts as targeting the character standing in that circle, making the ability to target circles rather pointless. For example, Irishka can fire Kaali on a circle where an invisible Hoax figure stands and so probably wound Hoax. Why? Because Kaali doesn't target Hoax but simply fires into that circle. If Kaali would actually target a character, Irishka could not attack Hoax because she may not be targeted. Furthermore, a character damaged by Kaali can't counterattack because he wasn't actually targeted by an attack. There are several other situations where a weapon that doesn't target characters simply works different from a weapon that does.






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