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Deckbuilding Contest: The Stuff of Legends


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#1 HappyDD

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 09:32 AM

The info for this deck building contest just got posted. The fact that you start with a Legend in play is just so crazy for deck-building purposes that I would think the game fundamentally changes. If you are getting 5 resources on your first turn you can throw down all sorts of crazy cards, right away!

So this got me thinking about all sorts of conspiracy theories: Perhaps an official alternate play format is coming where you start with a Legend in play? Ridiculous cards that were unplayable before are now within the realm of affordability. The decks would be totally different from the nickel and dime decks that have to throw down as much power as possible in the first turn, simply because with so many more resources in the first turn you can afford something like 95% of the cards in the entire game!

While fun for a deck building contest, would you guys play this alternate format? Or do you see it as something hilarious to be done every now and then, but otherwise is just a gimmick?



#2 gr4ffi

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 09:38 PM

I guess you will have to playtest these decks in order to get to know this very different playstyle! At first i thought this was going to be fun, but i also came to  worry a little. It is very possible to kill a legend on turn 2 with your own legend and some units while it is more complicated to ensure safety for your legend, not with units, Archaon and Malekith are out there… I'm asking myself if the rules for starting should have been kept for this, i mean turn 2 player obviously has a super big advantage now drawing like 4 cards max while starting player has to keep his 7.

Anyways, it is a challenging whole new concept and iam very excited to see what decks will make it. Really great idea, i'd love to see some more of this and I would also plan on sending in a list of mine, but yet we have no idea on what cards are in the accursed dead. Will there be an official spoiler so everybody can pick cards out of this bp? 20 cards from bloodquest cycle is much, though.



#3 Papa Khann

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 08:20 AM

Actually it seems like the player going second would have an insurmountable advantage, if they are allowed to attack the other player's Legend on their first turn…

Papa

 



#4 Kaine82

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 09:01 AM

ˆ THIS

 That is Legends biggest weakness. The need to be protected.

 


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#5 HappyDD

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 01:31 PM

Papa Khann said:

Actually it seems like the player going second would have an insurmountable advantage, if they are allowed to attack the other player's Legend on their first turn…

 

gr4ffi said:

I mean turn 2 player obviously has a super big advantage now drawing like 4 cards max while starting player has to keep his 7.

I think these two quotes are saying the same thing. Which, yes, seems like a large, obvious advantage. So then the key seems to be how can you work around this, considering you will have to go first 50% of the time? Empire has units that you can play at any time you could take an action as a sort of "human shield" approach, Orcs have cheap units that can defend. I dunno, there are lots of interesting ways that you can think about to protect your legend. Also, if the second player goes at your legend and doesn't kill it, that means their legend is probably going to die next turn since they probably put all their stuff into the battlefield. Also, do you attack with your legend for the extra damage and risk them getting hurt? Or do you play it safe and hold him back? That isn't a trivial question to answer, imo.

 

 



#6 Doc9

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 09:29 AM

This sounds like a really interesting challenge and I fully plan on making a deck. I love the idea of starting with a Legend in play. Seems like a really fun, new playstyle.



#7 decado

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 01:49 AM

 I have already thought about this idea "you start with the legend of your choosing already in play". It was like few months earlier but I came to conclusion that it is much too powerful to start with the legend. This was my idea to bring unplayable legends into play but since the player is choosing the legend why choose the weaker one?


Anyway I am happy that FFG is coming with some new ideas. I don't care if it will be included in the tournament play, any idea that can bring unplayable cards into the game is worth giving it a try!

Also I can't wait to see new Destruction legends :D (imho they should have been mixed up - one Order legend then one Destruction and not 3 Order L in a row but…).

I am waiting for the Accursed Dead to arrive and sure will post my deck for The Stuff of Legends :)



#8 Doc9

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 02:39 PM

My deck is done. 60 cards due to the early, extra card draw.



#9 Mallumo

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 05:52 AM

Congratulations to the finalists and the winner! 



#10 HappyDD

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 07:04 AM

It'd be cool to see the other lists. I submitted an orc deck based around the principle of orcs being hilarious and having a big legend, so nothing impressive like an infinite loop. Congrats to all the winners!



#11 Mallumo

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 07:17 AM

HappyDD said:

I submitted an orc deck based around the principle of orcs being hilarious

 

Who cares if you didn't win, there is no better reason for a deck. 



#12 Teokrata

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 08:46 AM

There is an original decklist and strategy guide, have fun

 

LEGEND: Eltharion the Grim
CAPITAL: High Elves
RESTRICT: none

Eltharion Deck Wins (51k, 3 on the board)

3x Eltharion the Grim* (one on the board)
3x Lothern Sea Master*
3x Dreamer of Dragons
3x Valorous Mage
3x Elven Scout
3x Lion Standard*

3x Planning for War
1x Heroic Task* (one the board with most needed card)
1x Dawnstar Sword*
2x Eataine Warroom
3x Citadel of Dusk
3x Judgement of Loec
3x Gathering the Winds*
3x Helm of Fortune*

3x Convocation of Eagles
3x Asuryan's Cleansing
2x Drain Magic
3x Arcane Power*
3x Master Rune of Valaya

* cards from the Bloodquest Cycle



STRATEGY:

This deck is created to use the advantage of Eltahrion the Grim on the board from the first turn. Becouse of that standard "set up" card like Warpstone Excavation, Contested Village or Envoy from Averlorn are less important than cards working with the Legend. The main combo is Convocation of Eagles + Arcane Power + Gathering the Winds, which gives with two Arcane Powers or two Winds infinity resource tokens, what means unlimited indirect damage. Dreamer + Lion Standard, Seamaster, Warroom and the Sword offers pure offensive power. First turn Dreamer + Helm on Heroic Task can provide an extra card draw and Cleansing and/or Eagles + Drain Magic can stop the opponent even when You play as second player. Unlimited Valaya with Gathering the Winds and Arcane Power + Judgement of Loec can protect Your Legend and the Capital. Planning for War + Arcane Power should be use to activate Heroic Task and re-use Convocations.

Main threats for this deck are Empire and Orc combo decks. First one uses Kurt Helborg + 2x Arcane Power + Pigeon Bombs infinity combo, which can be easy started in first turn. Combo is accelerated by other "free to play" tactics like Doubling of the Guard, Order in Chaos and really painfuly Infiltrate.

Second deck wins with Fists of Mork + Urguck + Lord of Change and/or 2x Arcane Power combo protected by Azhag the Slaughterer as the starting legend. Rip Dere 'Eads Off, Morks Teef Ritual and Liber Mortis under Heroic Task allows to get quickly what is needed. Grimgor Ironhide, Troll Vomit and Lobber Crew or Snotling Ambush can stop or totaly ruin the opponent until Fists of Mork finishes the game.

 



#13 HappyDD

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 08:50 AM

Ha, ya, that's my motivation for building decks, the potential for hilarity. So now my decks will have to be composed of one of two things:

1. Orcs

2. Pigeon Bombs

Both hilarious.

Thanks for posting the HE list. Troll Vomit and Snotling Ambush definitely become annoying, especially with a legend in play. You can vomit all over the opponent turn 1 and then throw down expendables to just assault the legend. But this list is cool, and I definitely like seeing the high elves win.



#14 Djibi

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 04:47 AM

Teokrata said:

 

 The main combo is Convocation of Eagles + Arcane Power + Gathering the Winds, which gives with two Arcane Powers or two Winds infinity resource tokens, what means unlimited indirect damage.

 

 

infinity ressource tokens with two gathering winds? could you explain how does it work



#15 HappyDD

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 05:36 AM

I'm no expert, but I think the idea is that every time you play a spell you can put a token on gathering the winds. Arcane Power is a spell that lets you draw a card, and if you have a Legend in play, you can take a card out of your discard pile. So if you have Gathering of the Winds in play and you play Convocation of Eagles you get one resource. Then you can put Convocation of Eagles on the top of your deck. Then you can use that resource to play Arcane Power, which let's you draw a card (Eagles), take a card from your discard (on iteration 1 it doesn't matter which one I guess), and put a token on Gathering of the Winds. Then you play Convocation of Eagles again and put it back on top of your deck for another resource in your pool.

I think this becomes an infinite loop if you have two Arcane Powers at the beginning of the cycle: You iterate this cycle again with the Arcane Power that is in your hand, which you use to pick up the other Arcane Power from your discard pile. Note that each time you do this cycle you are putting a token on gathering the winds, and with 2 Arcane Powers and the beginning that let you continue drawing Convocation of Eagles, you can do this cycle forever. The legend Eltharion the Grim then lets you do as many packets of 5 indirect damage as you want, so unless the opponent breaks the cycle somehow, you lose. In the tournament report the final match involved the Dwarfs trying to get 5 toughness on the board to make the loop pointless.



#16 HappyDD

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 05:48 AM

Djibi said:

 infinity ressource tokens with two gathering winds? could you explain how does it work

Aw crap, you asked about having 2 Gathering the Winds. I thought I had this figured out, but now that I look at Gathering it says you play the card in the discard for free then trash Gathering, so you can't use Arcane Power to pick up the Gathering, right?

So you have 2 Gatherings in play, play Eagles and put on top of your deck, play Arcane Power to draw a card (Eagles) and take something out of discard pile, which puts a token on your two Gatherings. Then you sacrifice one of the Gatherings to play the Arcane Power in your discard pile at no cost, since it only costs 1. This will let you draw a card (Eagles?) and you can pick up, what, the other Gathering? I'm not sure since it says to sacrifice the Gathering after you resolve the spell card.



#17 HappyDD

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 05:50 AM

Maybe the idea is not to put Eagles back on top, but to cycle through all your cards with the 2 Gatherings and the Arcane Power in the discard pile until you get to another Arcane Power, then you can start the combo up again. If you use the Eagles to play the Arcane Power the first time, then just keep sacrificing Gatherings to play Arcane Power, and bring a Gathering out of the discard pile each time (except when you sacrifice the first one), you will eventually transfer your deck into your hand one card at a time until you hit another Arcane Power.



#18 gr4ffi

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 06:42 AM

I think it is not possible to draw an infinite amount of cards with just one Arcane Power (AP) and two Gathering the Winds (GW).

Text of GW says:

"Forced: When you play a Spell card, put 1 resource token on this card. Action: Remove resource tokens from this card equal to the printed cost of a target Spell card in your discard pile to play it at no cost. Then, sacrifice this card."

So does this mean you will have to play the spell first and then sacrifice GW after? I think sacrificing GW is no cost to pay immediately before resolving the action of it with this particular wording. If so, you could not return a GW you just used to play AP from your discard pile, because the effect of AP will be resolved first. If sacrificing GW are cost you could do the trick like that:

GW1 and GW2 on the board. Play AP with 1 gold, draw a card get one marker each on both GW. Use GW1 to play AP again and return it to your hand. Rebuild GW1 and use GW2 that has 2 markers to play AP and return it imediately, draw a card. Then rebuild GW2 and use GW1 to play AP again, draw a card, get a marker on GW2 and return GW1 to your hand. Repeat.

But i guess it cannot work like that, you will have to return a card from your discard pile before a GW is even there.



#19 Maik

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 07:57 AM

HappyDD said:

It'd be cool to see the other lists. I submitted an orc deck based around the principle of orcs being hilarious and having a big legend, so nothing impressive like an infinite loop. Congrats to all the winners!

Here's my Kairos deck that apparently survived the first round only to be crushed by the High Elves infinite loop. Congratulations to Jan!

Destruction Deck: Kairos

Capital Board: Chaos

Starting Legend: Kairos Fateweaver

Cards from Bloodquest Cycle are marked by a •

Restricted: None

 

Obviously, Kairos has to be protected very well to make this work, so your starting hand should have either Descendant of Gods, a couple of horrors or Light of Morrslieb (to protect two zones with developments/units) . the Lords of Change are key cards in making both the Blessings and the Boon of Tzeentch less of a gamble.

Unit (29)

3 Blue Horrors
3 Pink Horrors
3 Savage Gors
3 Herald of Change
3 Hidden Sorceress •
3 Sorcerer of Tzeentch
3 Mounted Marauders •
3 Chaos Knights
2 The Changeling
3 Lord of Change

 

Legend (3)

3 Kairos Fateweaver

Support (10)

3 Light of Morrslieb
1 Liber Mortis •

2 Rift of Battle •

2 Descendant of Gods •

2 Stolen Skin •

 

Tactic (9)

2 Arcane Power •

2 Will of Tzeentch
2 Blessings of Tzeentch
2 Boon of Tzeentch •
1 Seduced by Darkness

Quest (4)

3 Beastman Incursion •



#20 HappyDD

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 08:03 AM

gr4ffi said:

I think it is not possible to draw an infinite amount of cards with just one Arcane Power (AP) and two Gathering the Winds (GW).

Text of GW says:

"Forced: When you play a Spell card, put 1 resource token on this card. Action: Remove resource tokens from this card equal to the printed cost of a target Spell card in your discard pile to play it at no cost. Then, sacrifice this card."

So does this mean you will have to play the spell first and then sacrifice GW after? I think sacrificing GW is no cost to pay immediately before resolving the action of it with this particular wording. If so, you could not return a GW you just used to play AP from your discard pile, because the effect of AP will be resolved first. If sacrificing GW are cost you could do the trick like that:

GW1 and GW2 on the board. Play AP with 1 gold, draw a card get one marker each on both GW. Use GW1 to play AP again and return it to your hand. Rebuild GW1 and use GW2 that has 2 markers to play AP and return it imediately, draw a card. Then rebuild GW2 and use GW1 to play AP again, draw a card, get a marker on GW2 and return GW1 to your hand. Repeat.

But i guess it cannot work like that, you will have to return a card from your discard pile before a GW is even there.

gr4ffi said:

Lots of smart stuff

I started off thinking you were wrong, but now I'm not so sure. I play AP and put a marker on each GW, as you say. Then I throw away the token on GW1, draw, pick up card from discard, then AP goes in the discard, then GW1 goes in the discard. Now I use GW2 to play AP, which I use to pick up GW1 and a card. Build GW1, I have AP and GW2 in the discard, and I don't see a way to put a token on GW1 without some outside card… Hm, maybe you are right… So then the original question by Djibi to Teokrata still stands. How the hell do you hit the infinite resource combo with 2 GW, 1 AP, and 1 Convocation of Eagles (if that matters)?






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