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Dust Models, Konigslothar, coming soon


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#1 Miah999

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 08:26 AM

Man that's a lot of rockets



#2 LotusPwn3r

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 09:45 AM

And yet, not really that much more "firepower" than a regular Lothar.

Looks REALLY cool, tho…



#3 Major Mishap

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 09:59 AM

 50% - 100% more damage against infantry and no Reload, that's a pretty powerful punch.



#4 attila

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 02:34 AM

 "a hard rain's gonna fall…"

What's a fair point cost for this monster?



#5 Loophole Master

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 02:39 AM

At 3/ and 8/1, with no Reload…  there are no fair point costs for this. 



#6 attila

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 02:57 AM

 Ssshhh - don't tell my SSU collecting friend that 

Though it is anti-air deficient, so his choppers will remain a rather large threat. 



#7 golem101

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 06:18 AM

If it hints a pattern of sorts for the Axis heavies, I can't wait to see a Konigsludwig (following the reversed name convention for medium and heavy walkers) with a super-heavy-duty kampfzange… 



#8 Loophole Master

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 07:10 AM

golem101 said:

If it hints a pattern of sorts for the Axis heavies, I can't wait to see a Konigsludwig (following the reversed name convention for medium and heavy walkers) with a super-heavy-duty kampfzange… 

That should be called Konigsluther.   Better to have a Konigsloth with two super-Kampfzange.



#9 golem101

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 09:51 AM

Loophole Master said:

golem101 said:

If it hints a pattern of sorts for the Axis heavies, I can't wait to see a Konigsludwig (following the reversed name convention for medium and heavy walkers) with a super-heavy-duty kampfzange… 

 

That should be called Konigsluther.   Better to have a Konigsloth with two super-Kampfzange.

It's strange, but the Luther/Ludwig naming configurations don't match for the medium and heavy walkers…

Heinrich = 20 mm flakvierling

Ludwig = twin 88 mm

Luther = 50mm + kampfzange

Lothar = nebelwerfer 42

Loth = two kampfzange

Konigsluther = twin 173 mm (kinda like the Ludwig)

Sturmkonig = 128 mm flakvierling (Heinrich-type config?)

Konigsludwig = ??

Koniglothar = schwer nebelwerfer 42

Konigsloth = ??

So, the Konigsludwig (if it'll match the medium Luther) should feature a multi-purpose long-range weapon system and a super powerful close combat one…

 



#10 Loophole Master

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 10:03 AM

Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of the heavy panzer names. They're just too long and clumsy, and often you can't even abbreviate them. You could call the Sturmkonig simply "Sturm", but there's nothing you can do for the Konigsluther and Konigslothar. If you call them "Konig", it could be any heavy panzer, and if you call them Luther and Lothar, well, that's just like the mediums…



#11 AELFWINE

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 03:08 PM

I require four of these beasts.



#12 Lska

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 11:01 AM

 If it's less than 140 it's OP:D



#13 AELFWINE

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 04:51 AM

I wonder if we will see an Allied or SSU counterpart to this vehicle?



#14 golem101

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 05:17 AM

An allied Steel Storm? 



#15 Loophole Master

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 05:38 AM

How about the Enola *** in heavy walker form?



#16 Gimp

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 05:43 AM

You've gotta love the silly stats DUST Models puts out.

A model that will kill any infantry unit it fires at without the need to do a sustained attack could make observer units even more popular so it can't be attacked before it shreds enemy infantry units.

Without Sustained Attack, it would only average 2.64 hits against vehicles, but that ups to 4.41 with Sustained Attack, so medium walkers other than the SSU have to worry about even single turn exposure if they move to attack it.

All of that, and it could do it every turn because it doesn't need to reload.

Hopefully, there will be significant changes before official game stats are released.



#17 AELFWINE

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 06:18 AM

This unit is probably designed with Warfare rules in mind, therefore Airdrop would be effective against it, but that is more of a discussion for the Warfare Forum.



#18 ItsUncertainWho

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 06:54 AM

If they are doing this for the Axis, they might do a Calliope variant for the Allies.

 

 



#19 smith2332

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 06:56 AM

Gimp said:

You've gotta love the silly stats DUST Models puts out.

A model that will kill any infantry unit it fires at without the need to do a sustained attack could make observer units even more popular so it can't be attacked before it shreds enemy infantry units.

Without Sustained Attack, it would only average 2.64 hits against vehicles, but that ups to 4.41 with Sustained Attack, so medium walkers other than the SSU have to worry about even single turn exposure if they move to attack it.

All of that, and it could do it every turn because it doesn't need to reload.

Hopefully, there will be significant changes before official game stats are released.

One thing your forgetting though is this does nothing against flying units, so if I roll in with some choppers this thing is pretty worthless.  Like all things in this game there is a strength and weakness.  I think people are completely forgetting about flying units because its been such a non factor in this game until now that SSU has arrived.  Allies Punisher has about the exact same ability for attack but does not have the ability to ignore cover like this, but Punisher has the ability to carry and has higher armor rating.  I think people are blowing it a little out of porportion, Im pretty sure it will be around 100 AP like Punisher.



#20 Gimp

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 07:46 AM

I'm not forgetting about air power.  Any force has to decide how to deal with air power, and some units will be good at it, while others have no capability.  That's been a fact of warfare since aircraft started participating.

Rolling 3/x against infantry with an artillery weapon means a normal attack will average enough hits to kill any unit without a hero, and severely hurt a unit with a hero.  A Sustained Attack would be far worse.  Against a five man unit with a hero, a normal attack will average six wounds.  A Sustained attack would average ten wounds, which would destroy all current units with a hero.  Against a three man unit with a hero, a normal attack will average four wounds, with a Sustained Attack averaging 6.64 wounds, so either attack would be crippling, with a good chance to kill off the entire unit with most heroes (those with four wounds).

Lacking anti-air defense does not eliminate that threat, it simply means that anti-air assets will have to be within range to protect the unit, just as they will be needed for any other unit without inherent anti-air capability.

Air assets can come in to attack the Konigslothar, but they will need a significant effort to eliminate it, especially if there are mechanics nearby, and they will be subject to anti-air defenses from anyone but a very foolish player while they work to eliminate the Konigslothar.

Any heavy walker will be a centerpiece for the force using it, if for no other reason than its individual point cost.  That makes keeping anti-air assets near the Konigslother a logical tactical option only a fool would ignore when facing a player with air assets.

With the Konigslothar able to kill any infantry, and most walkers, with a single attack available every turn, a force with flyers would have to worry about eliminating it, which makes defensive preparations easy to set up.  The Konigslothar as written here would dominate the flow of battle, which works to the advantage of the player fielding it.






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