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Piloted Walkers and Damage


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#1 Arcturus1979

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 08:24 AM

If a Piloted Walker is hit can i choose who suffers the Damage - the Hero or the Walker? Or put otherwise does a hero in a walker increase that walker's Hit Points? I can't find anything regarding this in the rules.

Thanks for answers.



#2 Loophole Master

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 08:40 AM

As far as the official rules go: no. The ONLY benefit the walker gets from having a pilot is the use of the hero's special Skill. It gains no extra survivablity or anything.

I haven't played with a piloted walker yet, but it does seem like their synergy could have been a bit more beneficial, specially since the SSU pilots we've seen so far are a joke when battling on their own.



#3 Arcturus1979

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 05:01 PM

Thanks Loophole Master. I think there will be a homemade rule in my games then.



#4 Panzer soldier

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 05:33 PM

Hang on now. I assumed that the hero shared its hit points with the walker the same as it does with squad it joins. Are you sure about this Loophole? No offense but if this is true it makes the hero not worth having at all! It's to many points to make it worthwhile.



#5 Major Mishap

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 08:34 PM

I'm begining to think you are right Panzer Soldier.  The rules do not state either way, but by default you have a hero joining a unit and so normal rules should apply.  And as you say, to back this up, the heroes are pretty useless otherwise.  I tried out a SSU force this week and Koska/Grand'ma could not do anything as they spent the whole game trying to avoid long range AT fire, even had to use Assault to duck behind a building as the KV's are so slow.



#6 daniello_s

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 09:33 PM

Major Mishap said:

I'm begining to think you are right Panzer Soldier.  The rules do not state either way, but by default you have a hero joining a unit and so normal rules should apply.  And as you say, to back this up, the heroes are pretty useless otherwise.  I tried out a SSU force this week and Koska/Grand'ma could not do anything as they spent the whole game trying to avoid long range AT fire, even had to use Assault to duck behind a building as the KV's are so slow.

 

You said it brotha! :D

 



#7 Loophole Master

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 12:37 AM

To say that heroes share their health with their walker because "the rules don't state either way" seems a bit of a stretch to me. The rules don't state that the hero "joins" or "is attached" to a walker, the same way that they say about squads. They only say that he "is able to pilot the noted vehicle", "may board or exit the noted vehicle". For all intents and purposes, the rules describe the pilot as simply a carried soldier whose skills can be used by the vehicle.

That said, sharing health might be a good house rule. Though it's one that changes the dynamics considerably.

 



#8 Major Mishap

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 06:38 AM

Loophole Master said:

To say that heroes share their health with their walker because "the rules don't state either way" seems a bit of a stretch to me. The rules don't state that the hero "joins" or "is attached" to a walker, the same way that they say about squads. They only say that he "is able to pilot the noted vehicle", "may board or exit the noted vehicle". For all intents and purposes, the rules describe the pilot as simply a carried soldier whose skills can be used by the vehicle.

That said, sharing health might be a good house rule. Though it's one that changes the dynamics considerably.

 

But, as I said, when a hero joins a unit the user can allocate hits as he wants, walkers are still units and you are joining a hero to that unit, so normal rules apply unless stated otherwise.



#9 felkor

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 06:42 AM

Major Mishap said:

Loophole Master said:

 

To say that heroes share their health with their walker because "the rules don't state either way" seems a bit of a stretch to me. The rules don't state that the hero "joins" or "is attached" to a walker, the same way that they say about squads. They only say that he "is able to pilot the noted vehicle", "may board or exit the noted vehicle". For all intents and purposes, the rules describe the pilot as simply a carried soldier whose skills can be used by the vehicle.

That said, sharing health might be a good house rule. Though it's one that changes the dynamics considerably.

 

 

 

But, as I said, when a hero joins a unit the user can allocate hits as he wants, walkers are still units and you are joining a hero to that unit, so normal rules apply unless stated otherwise.



When a hero enters a walker (like a Punisher or Fireball), it does not share damage.  The rules talk about boarding and exiting, not joining, so to me Loophole Master is correct, and "normal rules" for units boarding walkers apply in this case.



#10 Major Mishap

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 06:51 AM

 If that is the case, then there is no point at all in taking the expensive pilots, and probably not most of the KV's either.



#11 felkor

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 06:55 AM

Sounds like a good rules question to email in about… the wording is ambiguous enough that they could have meant it either way.



#12 Loophole Master

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 07:04 AM

It really should be questioned if people are in doubt. But to me, sharing health is a MAJOR mechanic that would have been mentioned if that was the intention. As I said, pilots don't join the vehicle, they just board it, pretty much like any other soldier. 

Not having played with a pilot yet, I don't know if they are completely useless unless they share health.



#13 Major Mishap

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 07:51 AM

 Re-reading the passenger rules it does look like pilots just count as passengers rather than joining a unit, really crap if this is true though as it will be better off buying another squad than Koska or the other pilot or an extra walker for both, at least you might have more of a chance to close the range.



#14 Panzer soldier

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 05:16 PM

I also reread the rules and it does state that the pilot enters and exits the vehicle. So I also believe that Loophole is correct. I did pose the question to Fantasy Flight though.
I had high hopes for the pilots increasing the hit points of the Kvs. Overall the SSU is a short ranged army the increased hit points would help you get close enough to be effective. I will let you all know what the rules boys when I get the answer.



#15 Error 718

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 02:27 AM

the sigrid jag has 8 points of damage compared to the normal jags 6. I think the skill is fine, adding the heros hits to the mech would make it to powerful.

 

Just my thoughts :/



#16 Loophole Master

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 02:36 AM

Well yeah, if that was a recurrent thing, where "hero" walkers had 2 extra Health points, it would seem right to me. But the SSU walkers with pilots have no extra health that we can see. But I agree that giving the hero's 4 extra health to a walker would be a bit too much. The mediums would end up with 8-9 Health, same as a heavy walker…



#17 mgentile7

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 02:27 PM

As some of the Dust guys created AT43 i dont recall the pilots having any affect on their bots in that game so I can only guess that is the same intention in Dust other than the special skills if applicable.



#18 Panzer soldier

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 04:26 PM

As promised the response from Fantasy Flight.

 

You recently asked some questions about Dust Tactics:

Rule Question:
My question is about the pilots skill some of the new Russian heroes have. When the hero is piloting the walker, do they count as one unit? In the case of a hero joining a squad. The two pool hit points and you may choose who takes damage, hero or squad members. Is this also true when the hero is piloting the walker?

Answer:When a hero is piloting a walker, or any other vehicle, they activate at the same time, but they do not count as being a single unit, such as when a hero joins a squad. The vehicle and its pilot DO NOT pool hit points. While piloting a vehicle, all damage is applied to the vehicle being piloted until it has been destroyed.

I hope this has answered your questions. Happy Gaming!

Zach Tewalthomas
Assoc. Miniatures Games Producer
Fantasy Flight Games
ztewalthomas@fantasyflightgames.com






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