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Plot card clarification


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#1 Giantsfan940

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 07:46 AM

I ran into a bit of a snag last night and need some clarification: during the plot phase, I revealed: "Waste their Time":  When revealed, look at each opponent's hand. Then choose 1 card from each of those hands and shuffle it into its owner's deck." and my friend revealed: "Summoning Season: 
When revealed, choose an opponent. Then, you and that opponent must each search your decks for a character, reveal it, and put it into your hands. Then, shuffle your decks." Now, a third member of our group won initiative, so marshalling and challenging would've went as so: Friend A, Friend B, My friend who had summoning season, and myself last. He says that I couldn't choose the card he drew via summoning season because all plot cards resolve simultaneously. I say BS



#2 KristoffStark

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 08:55 AM

Giantsfan940 said:

I ran into a bit of a snag last night and need some clarification: during the plot phase, I revealed: "Waste their Time":  When revealed, look at each opponent's hand. Then choose 1 card from each of those hands and shuffle it into its owner's deck." and my friend revealed: "Summoning Season: 
When revealed, choose an opponent. Then, you and that opponent must each search your decks for a character, reveal it, and put it into your hands. Then, shuffle your decks." Now, a third member of our group won initiative, so marshalling and challenging would've went as so: Friend A, Friend B, My friend who had summoning season, and myself last. He says that I couldn't choose the card he drew via summoning season because all plot cards resolve simultaneously. I say BS

All "when revealed" effects initiate simultaneously, but those effects resolve in an order selected by the First Player.



#3 ktom

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 09:49 AM

KristoffStark said:

All "when revealed" effects initiate simultaneously, but those effects resolve in an order selected by the First Player.
Correction: all "when revealed" plot effects initiate - and then resolve - in the order selected by the first player. The fact that they do not initiate at the same time (ie, "when revealed" plot #2 initiates after "when revealed" plot #1 resolves) makes a big difference for choosing targets.

So in your situation, it all depends on what the first player says. If the first player said "summoning season before waste," then you could get the character(s) retrieved with summoning season. If the first player said to do it the other way around, you could not.

Note that plots do not necessarily resolve in turn order. That is, if the first player is player #1, plots do not automatically resolve 1-2-3-4. The first player can choose any order s/he wants. It can be 4-2-1-3 is he so desires (turn order remains 1-2-3-4, of course).



#4 KristoffStark

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 10:14 AM

I stand corrected.



#5 Periculum

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 06:04 AM

ktom said:

KristoffStark said:

All "when revealed" effects initiate simultaneously, but those effects resolve in an order selected by the First Player.

Correction: all "when revealed" plot effects initiate - and then resolve - in the order selected by the first player. The fact that they do not initiate at the same time (ie, "when revealed" plot #2 initiates after "when revealed" plot #1 resolves) makes a big difference for choosing targets.

 

So in your situation, it all depends on what the first player says. If the first player said "summoning season before waste," then you could get the character(s) retrieved with summoning season. If the first player said to do it the other way around, you could not.

Note that plots do not necessarily resolve in turn order. That is, if the first player is player #1, plots do not automatically resolve 1-2-3-4. The first player can choose any order s/he wants. It can be 4-2-1-3 is he so desires (turn order remains 1-2-3-4, of course).

I've been trying to convince my group of this but they all swear that it's clockwise from whoever the first player chooses to be the new first player. Can I get a rulebook or FAQ reference to back this up so we can start playing the right way? :)



#6 KristoffStark

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 06:40 AM

From the FAQ:

(2.2) Plot Effect Resolution
Continuous or constant plot effects take
effect immediately and simultaneously, as
soon as the plot cards are revealed. The first
player determines the order in which all
"when revealed" plot effects are resolved.
"When revealed" plot effects are essentially
self-referential passive effects that initiate
in response to the revealing of the plot card
with the "when revealed" effect. They are
resolved (in the order determined by the first
player) during step 4 of the action window in
which the plot card was revealed. All "when
revealed" plot effects must resolve before any
other passive effects initiated by the revealing
of a plot card(s) are resolved.



#7 Periculum

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 07:53 AM

While we are on the subject, If I reveal and "outwit" plot card and an opponent reveals "valar morghulis," will I get the chance to cancel it always, or only if my card is resolved before his?



#8 ktom

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 08:25 AM

All plots that are not "when revealed" are active from the moment they are revealed. So, for example, Power of Blood will always stop Noble characters from being killed for Valar Morghulis, not matter what "order" the First Player decides on for plot resolution (because Power of Blood is "always on," so it is valid from the moment it is revealed).

Outwit is the same way. The fact that the card has the text is "always on," so it is available to be used from the moment it is revealed. 



#9 Periculum

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 04:05 PM

Awesome. Now to get my group playing the plot order right and we're in business.



#10 mikey

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 01:10 PM

Ktom,

 

I read the FAQ differently in respect to power of blood Vs Valar - we used to play the way you suggest but re-reading the FAQ time after time and to quote here:

All "when
revealed" plot effects must resolve before any
other passive effects initiated by the revealing
of a plot card(s) are resolved.

This to me means that at the point of revealing the when revealed order gets determined by the first player and only after that resolution and the effects taking place do the other plot cards become effective - so in this case a valar is played and made effective before power of blood

 

What does everyone else think?



#11 stormwolf27

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 11:51 PM

mikey said:

 

Ktom,

 

I read the FAQ differently in respect to power of blood Vs Valar - we used to play the way you suggest but re-reading the FAQ time after time and to quote here:

All "when
revealed" plot effects must resolve before any
other passive effects initiated by the revealing
of a plot card(s) are resolved.

This to me means that at the point of revealing the when revealed order gets determined by the first player and only after that resolution and the effects taking place do the other plot cards become effective - so in this case a valar is played and made effective before power of blood

 

What does everyone else think?

 

 

not even. as soon as you reveal plots, before you even determine initiative and winner chooses first player, this plot is on, because it doesn't use the phrase "when revealed."

The passives it is referring to is anything on a card you control in play without the plot, any phase, response, etc. that says to do x after you reveal a plot card.

The plots themselves only have one chance for "trigger" and "resolution," and that's when they use the phrase "when revealed." Otherwise, it's always on while it's your active plot.


"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka


#12 -Istaril

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 09:58 AM

To clarify what stormwolf said a little; CONSTANT effects (Power of Blood) that have no point of initiation are always on from the moment the card enters play. When revealed effects are passives that trigger off the plot being revealed. Other passives (eg Bay of Ice) trigger after when-revealed passives. The relevant passage of the FAQ was quoted earlier in the thread, I just wanted to make sure that you see that Stormwolf's reply is consistent with that terminology.






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