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Taking cards 'hostage'


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#1 Prince Capsicum

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:20 PM

 Here is a potential house rule that I wanted opinions on.

After combat, the losing side gives the winning side their house card that they played. This card is now being held hostage by the victorious house. The cards can then be used as bartering chips to negotiate strategies. A house can choose to remove a card from the game if they so wish(this would deplete a house deck yes but it also makes it easier to recycle cards that haven't been taken. Furthermore, only cards with the houses name in them (such as Stark; Robb, Catlyn, Eddard etc) can be captured by the enemy representing the important members of the house being of any value to another house.

I was wondering what everyone thought about this and if any changes can be made to make it more balanced. It's just an idea at the moment and can be worked on. 



#2 Ichaft

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 04:02 PM

I really find it to be very interesting. Did you know the first edition had this kind of rule? Not just it, the heroes used to go into battle with the map units, and could be locked in jails across the land after losing a battle. When I discovered this, I found myself willing to create rules and tokens to implement this into the second edition. Your way is way more simple, though, and might give us some fun. I'm still gonna try creating those tokens, as soon as my college exams are over.



#3 dypaca

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 04:39 PM

I would suggest trying to keep it as close to the Storm of Swords rules as you can.  (The rules can still be read on the support archive page).  Your version could be fun to try out, but it makes winning a battle much too powerful.

At the very least I would recommend not limitting it based on the name of the house card.  For Baratheon that would only be the two strongest cards, While for Martell it would be the two weakest (one of which is designed to be used when losing a battle).

Storm of Swords had leader tokens which marched with units, and to capture one you had to defeat them in combat and inflict a casualty.  Even then you only destroyed the corresponding house card if you succeeded in executing the leader (which required certain westeros cards to come up).  You could steal power while you held leaders, but there were also ways for the owner to get the leader back by defeating you in combat.



#4 Prince Capsicum

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 01:31 AM

 Storm of swords was an expansion for the first edition wasn't it? Could you tell me more about it so I could try and refine this idea of mine?



#5 dypaca

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 03:13 AM

You can read the rules here:

http://www.fantasyfl.../asos_rules.pdf

Basically each house had two leader tokens which matched two of their house cards.  These tokens had to be in a land area with units of your house, and they added their strength to those units.  When you inflicted casualties on units with a leader, the winner could choose to reduce the casualties by one in order to take the leader hostage.

Storm of Swords also included tactics cards.  Each turn during your planning phase you would choose one of several tactics which would give you bonuses like extra strength when attacking, or extra strength when defending.  The 'Secure Hostages' tactic allowed you to steal a hostage from any player who you defeated in battle that turn.  If the stolen hostage was one of your own leaders, then you placed it in the area where you won the battle.

Three of the deck three Westeros cards (plus one of the options on the two deck three choice cards) allowed each player to execute one of their hostages.  If you did, the house card that matched that character was removed from the game.  (Note, that you could continue to use the house card of a leader who was a hostage, only executing him destroyed the card.  This bothered people thematically, but it simplified things).

What really made leaders interesting though was that they each had either a Raid, March, or Consolidate power symbol on them.  When you resolved an order of that type in their area, you could choose to discard it and then immediately resolve a march in that area.  So forces with a leader could march during the Raid or Consolidate power phase.  Leaders would either generate one power when they did this, or add one sword icon to any battles started this way.  They could also have a different strength while marching this way.

There are several other details I skipped over, but that is the basic concept of leaders.



#6 jhagen

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 10:28 AM

Ok we have playtested this now 3 times. Here is the resulting rules:

when combat takes place:

1. the losing team may surrender their card in substitution for sword icon fatalities (no limit on them) to not take casualties for the battle and use the hero in their stead.

2. the winning team may elect to take the played card as a "hostage", in this case no casualties from sword icons are taken on the losing side.

3.Only House-named cards may ever be taken "hostage". (IE: stannis baratheon or tywin lannister…patchface as a prisoner has no bargaining power, nor does a bastard son of eddard stark)

4. once a battle takes place between 2 houses that have mutual "hostages", they must be traded after the battle (with each taking a freely chosen card from the "hostages" pile) regardless of the winning side. in addition, no new hostages can be taken as a result of the aforementioned battle.

5. the hostage may be returned the owning player

These rules dramatically change how cards are played, and give value to low and mid-range strength cards. it also allows a means for fortification-less card sets to now have them. (for a price)

In addition, it boosts some of the weaker card sets by virtue of who a "named card" is:

 

House Baratheon

Stannis Baratheon 4 

Renly Baratheon 3

 

House Lannister

Tywin Lannister 4

Tyrion Lannister 1

 

House Stark

Eddard Stark 4

Robb Stark 3

Catelyn Stark 0

 

House Greyjoy

Victarion Greyjoy 3

Theon Greyjoy 2

Balon Greyjoy 2

Asha Greyjoy 1

 

House Tyrell

Mace Tyrell 4

Ser Loras Tyrell 3

Ser Garlan Tyrell 2

 

House Martell


Arianne Martell 1

Doran Martell 0

 

try it out … post what you think!

 



#7 jhagen

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 07:57 AM

rule 5 got cut out for some reason:

5. the hostage may be returned the owning player at any time during the end phase of a turn for a mandatory 2 power tokens. this trade takes place wether or not the player wants it to. This is to prevent people from throwing away low or useless cards to avoid losses on the field of battle.



#8 Spike1382

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 11:24 AM

 My suggestions would be that you gain the card your opponent used if their army was whipped out, IF you so chose (so you don't HAVE to make their hand better by taking sucky characters). You can execute ONE character at the end of a bidding round. Characters can be swapped for anything or nothing that is legal to trade and other characters. Doesn't have to be back to the owner.



#9 Spike1382

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 11:32 AM

 Also, if making a list, Euron Corw's Eye belongs on there (He's Euron Grayjoy, brother to the King), as does The Red Viper (brother to head of house), Ser Jamie Lannister (first son of the head of the house), Ser Kevan Lannister (brother of the head of the house), Cersei Lannister (Queen regent), Margaery Tyrell (should be Queen by now), Melisadre (Stannis would probably trade half his army for her).



#10 Prince Capsicum

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 09:35 PM

 I think your rule of if the army was wiped out sounds pretty good Spike, I'll give it a go.

Jhagen, I tried two games of using your rule and we ran into a problem of no one caring whether their army lost a few units or not. It seems to me that the defeated player shouted be given a choice.



#11 Spike1382

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:44 PM

 I was thinking that the player who's character is excited loses influence equal to that character's strength. Also thinking that the option to start executions could be an additional option of the three choice cards. All seem thematically appropriate.



#12 Spike1382

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:52 PM

 Er, executed.



#13 phild

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 04:59 AM

Six months late to this particular thread, but as a newbie AGoT player I've obviously been having similar thoughts to many others.

I was thinking that the winner should *pay* to Execute a leader, not gain Power. After all, when [spoiler] executed [spoiler] at the end of the first book, it almost certainly made their position weaker, not stronger. I'd probably price it at 2 power or the House card's strength, whichever is higher (i.e. 2 power for the Queen of Thorns, 4 power to top Ned Stark)

I would also allow any card to be kept hostage. You have a metagame a little bit, and while Patchface the character isn't very important, Patchface the card is a valuable asset that is probably worth more than many other House Cards when it comes to exchanging hostages.

 



#14 Nakraal

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:08 AM

I would say that the following formula, tailored from what I saw read above, would be balanced:

 

1. When a battle results in all units destroyed the defeated Card is taken "hostage" by the winner

2. The players can broker an agreement so the Card is returned at any time except the orders phase.

      a. Apart from cease fires, territory concessions etc a player may pay in power tokens to take the card back.

      b. If the capturer requests 2 power tokens the player is forced to give them.

      c. Exchange of hostages are possible even if a player gives a third parties card.

3. A capturer may "execute" the Card if he chooses to discard power tokens equal to its strength AND has the aproval of the holder of the Iron Throne.

4. Whenever a player captures a home province any hostage cards of the player owning the region are either released (if the card is his) or go to his hostage pile (if the card is of any other house)

 






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