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What happens to a walker who's transport chopper is shot down?


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#1 Panzer soldier

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 06:12 PM

So maybe I am missing something but I don't see what happens to walker when it's trans port walker is shot down?



#2 Major Mishap

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 12:05 AM

This is being discussed several threads down on this page.



#3 thejughead

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 02:32 AM

Nothing official from FFG, but if a unit has to roll for each soldier, then logic dictates a walker has to roll it current DC.



#4 Loophole Master

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 02:34 AM

DC?

Logic would dictate that if a hero rolls a single die, then a walker also does the same. Not that I think this is how it should be.



#5 felkor

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 05:41 AM

DC = Damage Capacity in Dust Warfare.  I believe it's always referred to as Health in Dust Tactics.



#6 Loophole Master

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 05:51 AM

Right. Let's all remember that this is the Dust Tactics forum. There's another forum for Warfare. Conversation will degrade rapidly if people start mixing the two.



#7 Jowimus

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 06:04 AM

I believe that it would roll one die. I would prefer units riding in aerial transports get hit a little harder for thematics, but this is not supported in the rules.



#8 Panzer soldier

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 04:29 PM

I think the walker should automatically take at least one point of damage. Now I know this is a game but a copper hauling heavy equipment that goes down would realistically be destroyed along with what it was carrying.
So at the very least the walker should take automatic damage. Also the walker if it survives should not immediately combat roll to it's feet and move out. The walker should at least take a turn to pick itself up and dust itself of so to speak.



#9 Loophole Master

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 01:00 AM

That would be a very good alternative as well. Roll damage normally, as per the "carry capacity" rules, but whatever the result, turn the figures on their side, as if they had just used a Stim Kit. They need to be activated in order to be brought back up, and that consumes all of that activation. Infantry units cannot retaliate C attacks while lying prone.

That would give the other side a fair chance of "mopping up" the remains of the crash, instead of the downed unit simply pouncing on them as if nothing had happened.



#10 thejughead

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 05:12 PM

Loophole Master said:

DC?

Logic would dictate that if a hero rolls a single die, then a walker also does the same. Not that I think this is how it should be.

I would have said health for a hero, but does a tank have "health"? I guess you figured out my meaning though.



#11 Major Mishap

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 08:36 PM

 I've had a look at the rules again and only soldiers receive damage, so no damage at all for walkers.  I guess they just release from the clamp and using their thrusters drop unharmed, something soldiers can't do.



#12 jackylx

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 04:09 AM

I'm assuming this is an ssu transport, but lets assume Allied get one. If the walker has jump ability to slow the fall, would it take damage still? Land on its legs? Rules would have to cover that possibility also (aka automatic damage).



#13 Major Mishap

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 04:16 AM

 The rules are there for what happens to a shot down aircraft passengers, so unless this is the biggest error/oversight so far, walkers sustain no damage.  Yours is a hypothetical question about units not available, so cannot be answered.



#14 Gimp

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 09:42 AM

As written, walkers have no mechanic for being damaged, which is rather silly, but all we have for now.

Jump capability is not specified as helping infantry, nor would I expect it to help walkers.  They aren't making a controlled descent, but rather being flung about with shrapnel from the destroyed transport and the difficulty of exiting during a crash landing.

It would be nice if they specified the 'just like Carry Capacity' for Carry Capacity: Vehicle included a damage roll, but we'll have to see if they accept it as a gaff, and add errata, or pretend a carried vehicle in a crash is somehow completely unaffected and fully capable after the crash.



#15 Loophole Master

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 05:31 AM

And here's the "official" answer:

What happens to a walker when the carrier helicopter that is transporting it is destroyed?

The walker is placed by its owner on the empty space directly beneath the destroyed transport helicopter. If the helicopter is over a space that is not legal for the walker to occupy, the walker is then placed on any legal adjacent space. If there are no legal adjacent spaces upon which to place the walker, it is eliminated.

 

So…. no damage whatsoever. Unless you have no legal squares around the chopper to occupy, then you're destroyed. So what are the illegal squares for walkers?:

- Terrain/walls

- Tank traps

- Water (if you're not amphibian)

- Any enemy units

- Friendly units (with the possible exception of a lone hero).

- But what about 3D buildings? Can you land a walker on the roof of a building, either on purpose or due to being shot down? And if you can, then there's no rule stopping the walker from climbing down the stairs.

- And what about 2D buildings? They don't really have a roof area, so can the walker land right inside it, or would it be destroyed?

 

And finally, does the attacker gain the Victory Points from a walker eliminated in such a fashion?

 



#16 Panzer soldier

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 05:04 PM

Wow this is just like the Commissars the answer from FFG just bring us more questions.


Now I know DT is a sort of board game with simple rules but, I think the walker has to take some sort of damage!

I would say it should roll a dice for each hit point it has, and for everything bulls eye it would take a point of damage.  This would at least account for the walkers weight in some fation.



#17 Major Mishap

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 08:53 PM

 I don't see why it has to take damage.  It's not actually in the vehicle when shot at and it has its thrusters to be able to drop to the ground safely.



#18 fhaugh

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 12:50 AM

Panzer soldier said:

Wow this is just like the Commissars the answer from FFG just bring us more questions.


Now I know DT is a sort of board game with simple rules but, I think the walker has to take some sort of damage!

I would say it should roll a dice for each hit point it has, and for everything bulls eye it would take a point of damage.  This would at least account for the walkers weight in some fation.

That's how we will play it, if anyone here even buys into the SSU.



#19 Gimp

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 06:34 AM

Major Mishap said:

 I don't see why it has to take damage.  It's not actually in the vehicle when shot at and it has its thrusters to be able to drop to the ground safely.

But it isn't a controlled drop, as the vehicle is falling from a destroyed chopper.

Add to that the limitation that SSU walkers do not have Jump, so all of the force of the fall has to be absorbed by the walker that could be falling at an awkward angle.

The chopper could also be flying at a much higher elevation than the walker is designed to be dropped from.  If you have equipment for a safe drop from 10m, but are shot down at 100m, there's a lot of force with no design constraints to offset the possible damage.

If the chopper is assumed to autorotate down, ther is far less force on the walker from the landing, but it then has a chopper crushing down on it after it lands, with possible fire and other elements to cause further problems.

There's no consideration for the chopper having a catastrophic destruction, either, and being thrown out of an exploding chopper should cause some chance of damage.

Rolling a dice for each damage point sounds like a logical way to handle the force of different walkers hitting the ground when they weren't supposed to.



#20 Major Mishap

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 07:01 AM

 Nothing stopping the pilot from controlling it's descent once released from the chopper in the same way a pilot does with ejector seat and parachute.  Sure you could have a die roll to see how successful the operator is, but not really neccessary for game play.






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