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#1 Algesan

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 02:16 AM

So, Gimp writes a solid review detailing both the issues and highlighting potential solutions that were botched by Andy Chambers under FFG.  Immediately there come the response of the know-nothings who cannot address the issues but simply say "it is a 'sci-fantasy' game" without a clue to game design or world consistency.    So let me point out something hard and real for the know-nothings…

Dust Warfare fails the test of the real world marketplace.  In less than one month, I say again less than one month, I tell you three times less than one month, Dust Warfare has gone from a hard cover rulebook release to a half-price downloadable PDF.  Rather amusing since there would probably be a greater amount of support from the DT side of the house for print on demand unit cards to use "regular" WW2 vehicles and troops in DT to simulate the great mass of non-upgraded troops both sides must rely on to support the relatively small percentage of VK enhanced technologies.  Probably be in the bargain bin on Amazon before the summer is over.

Do you want to play Dust on the tabletop?  Really?  Okay.  Each point of movement or range equals 6" (or 4" or whatever you want).  Use TLOS and if models are less than half obscured they get soft cover and if half or more obscured they get hard cover.  Real gamers who understand games and gaming could work this out in ten minutes across the tabletop.  You know, people who can read a book and comprehend it without having to do practical exercises for homework by "playing some games".

Now, I will admit there is one concept DW did that strikes my interest as worthwhile.  Platoon organization.  An excellent concept that will avoid some of the abuses inherent in the current DT system, although if the truth be told, give the size of most scenarios and tournaments I've seen, it is really kind of trivial since 200 points per army limits abuse.  That idea should be developed rationally.

 

 



#2 KevinBakon

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 02:31 AM

 Who is this? What's your operating number?



#3 mariettabrit

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 02:45 AM

fails the test ? ha, I have the book and the pdf… sounds like they got extra money from me… ;)



#4 Gobbo

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 02:48 AM

mariettabrit said:

fails the test ? ha, I have the book and the pdf… sounds like they got extra money from me… ;)

 

Almost everyone I know has both…

 



#5 CaulynDarr

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 02:54 AM

 Or, it could just be that the stock is low on the print run because of it's popularity, and FF wanted to get the PDf version out there for people who may be having trouble finding it.  And being extra nice guys realized that $40 for a PDF is a pretty steep price.

Honestly, you can't win with some people.



#6 Denied

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 02:56 AM

Like does the OP understand business practices at all? I mean how Herp Derp are some people? Maybe you should look at the marketing numbers for Dust Warfare sales and the increase in Dust miniatures purchased after the release of the game. Also maybe you should pay attention to how FFG does their games in general see they are coming out with the first  expansion of the Dust Warfare series soon which means in the next couple of months we will be getting rules for the Russian Army as well as a few new vehicles for the Axis and Allies. FFG releases the Hardcover print version of the product then a few months down the road releases a PDF downloadable version for people and then a few months after that release the next expansion in the game and you can see how this trend goes right?

 

I mean way to fail at common logic there buddy boy.



#7 paradiddlebob

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 03:21 AM

 Seeing as these forums are almost blind, perhaps people should list their credentials when they say something of seeming importance. However, that might imply these threads are important; discussing pressing issues like pastimes, not politics or war or food security issues, things of that nature. I will start, I'm a musician a teacher. 



#8 zacharyw

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 03:24 AM

 It's unfortunate but there have clearly been a number of Dust Tactics players who have felt threatened or bothered that a miniature rule-set has come out and have looked for any excuse to bad-mouth the latter, DW, or praise the former, DT. 

It's really all unnecessary. If some people enjoy one more than the other, play the one you like and leave the vitriol and trolling off the forums -- thus far this forum, barring Gimps early review (which contains a number of irrelevant points, misunderstandings of rules, and a small amount of legitimate gripesm to be fair) there has been very little of the nonsense that is found on many other forums for other games. And as Gimp noted, his opinion was solicited by other tactics players, so even that maybe can be viewed as an editorial and taken with the appropriate salt. Regardless, I'd rather keep these sorts of posts to a minimum. 

I've played both versions and I have found  there are problems with both (as with 100% of every miniature game I've ever played)-- but noone is on the DW forums bad-mouthing Dust Tactics, so far as I've seen -- so let's keep discussion productive here as well as truthful. Dust Warfare sales have helped Dust Tactics sales, as both games are now supported and strong sales in one help the other. 

C'mon, peoples, we all use the same models after all. Play the game you want and leave the others to play what they're playin'. 



#9 Shadow4ce

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 03:47 AM

Move along folks, nothing to see here but pure hubris in the OP being viscerated by us know nothing's. Oh, all right, I'll add something to the discussion. Granted its all someone else's comments, but I found them interesting enough to share. 

 I can only speak to what I know…

A few days after DW released, I asked my FLGS owner, (who has a very strong online presence), how it was selling online. He told me he was sold out of the rulebook, his distributor (ACD) was out, his distributor heard FFG was doing a second print run far larger and sooner than expected, and there has been a huge increase in sales on many of the models. His own model sales have been about 5-6 times as brisk. 

Seeing as how I know nothing, I guess I'll have to take his word for it. Dust Warfare is apparently alive and well, and one of the most successful game launches in a long time. 

Sincerely,

Yet another gamer (34 year veteran of mini-games) who bought both the hard copy and the PDF. 



#10 Galadhir

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 03:55 AM

It's not funny at all. I think its nice of FFG to sell their rules cheaper in electronic format, I only wished they released them same time as a book, I would get PDF as its easier to handle. Hopefully FFG will support it,  if it wouldn't be profitable, they would shut it down imidiately without a word, just what they did to Battlelore, or rebooting Descent, and pleanty of other games that haven't been updated for a long time like Tide of Iron

Warfare made quite a noise and is getting high scores in reviews, mostly because of the miniatures imho, and accessibility, some people are complaining about it (me too) but they are in minority. I hope dust will succeed 'cause I want new stuff and a healthy game with pleanty of turnaments for Tactics and Warfare.



#11 thejughead

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 03:57 AM

Isn't there already a thread for this silliness?

Zacharyw is right, DT players need to stop the endless attacks. I love both games, but this is getting silly.



#12 Jowimus

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 04:11 AM

Considering the book is sold out after about a month, it must be doing pretty well.



#13 Vepr

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 04:14 AM

I don't understand why some Tactics players are so upset about this game.  Are they worried that Warfare will steal all future attention from Tactics if it does well?



#14 Guest_Not In Sample_*

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 04:58 AM

 Seriously?….. SERIOUSLY?….. ARE YOU FREAKIN' SERIOUS? ARE YOU GOING TO WRITE THIS SAME MESSAGE INTO EVERY SINGLE THREAD ON THIS WHOLE FORUM? SERIOUSLY?

THE ONLY THING FUNNY AROUND HERE IS YOU!

Then you reference Gimp… Gimp actually made valid comments and criticisms… it sparked 17 pages of back and forth horsecrap, but the original post was valid and has a place here. What you are doing on more than one thread here is not…. You are soo completely off the mark its funny if you want to know what is funny. I have never in my life called someone a troll and disagree with 99 per cent of the times when people are called a "troll" for their honest opinions, but I am very close to busting it out for the first time. You are not giving any kind of opinion that is worth anything, you are simply bashing for the sake of bashing, and in multiple places on the forum! You are a small, petty little man and you need to go away… like forever! You should have been slapped more as a child. This is ridiculous. I have been enjoying reading these forums which up to now have been pretty good. I have no interest in getting involved in flame wars, but after reading this same stupidity in two different threads in a row I can't friggin take it any more.

Do you work for a competitor or something?

When is your birthday so I can send you big red shoes and a squirting flower… because you are a clown!



#15 Galadhir

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 05:45 AM

@Vepr

"I don't understand why some Tactics players are so upset about this game. Are they worried that Warfare will steal all future attention from Tactics if it does well?"

 

Can't say for everybody but… I was Warfare player before Warfare came out, after it was anounced FFG planing on releasing tabletop game I got into Tactics just to get the minis when I found original core sets are dissapearing.  It grown on me, its simplicity and intuitive gameplay I was completly sold, bought expansions, new units and I've got at least 1 unit of every kind atm and multiple arm 2 infantry. Not all things were perfect and it was too fast and bloody for my taste not realy my kind of game but elegant. I had high expectations about Warfare taking into consideration how long Tactics was being played, and tested I thought it will give a strong fundation to new tabletop, and new things could improve the tactical side of the game giving new possible actions at your disposition and heavier rules, more variety in units stats and additional ones to better define them. Looking at competition I thought it would have to be realy good if it wanted to get noticed, just look at flames of war or Infinity rules.

I thought Tactics was designed to be for fast play, and Warfare when you realy want to have a deep strategy game and that it will be developed together to save on playtesting. My expectations were not meet, and they made completly new design that I don't even consider balanced and realy is a beer and pretzels game rather than deep strategy. I would say its on the same level as Tactics just differently, its abstract just like Tactics, I was at least expecting area effect weapons. When I found that there is error on error in the book I thought it was not edited and playtested enough, and felt like it was rushed and a bad design.

Sorry guys, I realy like the Dust world, I read the forums all the time and don't want to add to complaints I want to add to positive thoughts and see Dust succeed. I only wish they will balance it out when people will start giving more data on how units perform, because atm heavy walkers are so damn broken, just look at this AAR by "That Yo Garbage" www.youtube.com/watch , anyway… I will have to find another game that's more sophisticated maybe using Dust miniatures and still play Dust Warfare when I feel like to play a beer and pretzels game.

Thats my last sour comment about Warfare. Promisse.

But also its not nice to read - shut up !!, sell your minis !!! what can you know about Warfare? Troll !!! just for being honest.



#16 Noir420

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 06:52 AM

LOL, all most pissed my self when reading the OP post. Then I remembered NO ONE can be the dumb.

 

But, I'm nice so I'm feeding the TROLL.

 

@ Galadhir, reason why you don't like the game is not a problem. It's the uninformed hate becouse I can post that aren't needed (see OP).



#17 Grim6

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 09:30 AM

So let me point out something hard and real to one very specific know-nothing…

The originator of this thread fails the test of the real world common sense.  In less than one post, I say again less than one post, I tell you three times less than one post, the OP has proven that it is far better to keep your mouth shut and be suspected a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

I'd explain why the OP is so wrong, but my stock of troll food is dangerously low.  So, that's all. 



#18 Warboss Krag

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 10:46 AM

Considering that electronic media readers are now emminently portable, having the PDF version as well as the printed one is merely a modern necessity.



#19 paradiddlebob

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 11:10 AM

 We all remember what trolls look like, right? Big and stupid looking with drool draining out of their mouths. Some of them still live with their parents. 



#20 DoomOnYou72

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 11:17 AM

 

Algesan said:

 

So, Gimp writes a solid review detailing both the issues and highlighting potential solutions that were botched by Andy Chambers under FFG.  Immediately there come the response of the know-nothings who cannot address the issues but simply say "it is a 'sci-fantasy' game" without a clue to game design or world consistency.    So let me point out something hard and real for the know-nothings…

Dust Warfare fails the test of the real world marketplace.  In less than one month, I say again less than one month, I tell you three times less than one month, Dust Warfare has gone from a hard cover rulebook release to a half-price downloadable PDF.  Rather amusing since there would probably be a greater amount of support from the DT side of the house for print on demand unit cards to use "regular" WW2 vehicles and troops in DT to simulate the great mass of non-upgraded troops both sides must rely on to support the relatively small percentage of VK enhanced technologies.  Probably be in the bargain bin on Amazon before the summer is over.

Do you want to play Dust on the tabletop?  Really?  Okay.  Each point of movement or range equals 6" (or 4" or whatever you want).  Use TLOS and if models are less than half obscured they get soft cover and if half or more obscured they get hard cover.  Real gamers who understand games and gaming could work this out in ten minutes across the tabletop.  You know, people who can read a book and comprehend it without having to do practical exercises for homework by "playing some games".

Now, I will admit there is one concept DW did that strikes my interest as worthwhile.  Platoon organization.  An excellent concept that will avoid some of the abuses inherent in the current DT system, although if the truth be told, give the size of most scenarios and tournaments I've seen, it is really kind of trivial since 200 points per army limits abuse.  That idea should be developed rationally.

 

 

 

 Ok Ill bite.

By your logic since FFG just gives out the rules to Dust Tactics for Free, Free, i tell you three times man for Free! Then it must be a failure…

Speaking of the real world market place Electronic Format is a very real and viable product. In case you havent noticed Ipads, kindle, Nooks, and other E Readers sales were pretty much through the roof last year and that FFG has been putting their a majority of their hard cover dead tree books in PDF format a month or so after release for ohhh say a couple years now. Add to that fact that FFG has completely sold out of the first print run of Dust Warfare in a month it can pretty much be concluded that you have no clue…which I guess adds you to the list of Know-nothings you were complaining about.

On the plus side you seem literate so maybe you can read my post and comprehend it without having to go home and do some practical excercises to "get it".

Quit being a troll Algesan your posts are usually better than this. If youre going to keep acting this way youve been around long enough on the Dust forums to know that you are supposed to contact FFG and get Grand Inquisitor added to your name.

 






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