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LCG? Cam someone explain to me what to expect?


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#1 CBFTW

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 10:10 AM

I'm no stranger to Netrunner or CCGs, but I don't really know what they mean by LCG. I looked at the link for it and I'm still a bit puzzled. Anyone care to explain?

Thanks



#2 Surreal

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 10:46 AM

 LCG is like a boardgame with a new mini expansion about each month. There is one pack with known cards released about each month and no random cards like boosters. Also there is no rares, commons etc.



#3 Eldil

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 10:47 AM

LCG stands for "Living Card Game" and it's a distribution model.

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_npm.asp?eidm=14

It means that there won't be any randomized starters or boosters. If this follows the format of previous LCGs, there will be a "Core Set" containing a 2-4 fixed decks (mostly a x1 distribution of cards in the core set), and monthly expansions of 60 cards (x3 of each card), a "large expansion" coming out every now and then offer 165 cards (x3 of 55 cards).



#4 fidimar

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 10:49 AM

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_npm.asp?eidm=14



#5 fritsk

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 08:53 AM

Hmm,any overlap between any expansions, small and/or large? Or will all expansions be unique?

I can't quite seem to find an answer to this question.

And I don't feel like digging through the card database at cardgamedb.com



#6 dboeren

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 08:59 AM

No, there is no overlap between different expansions.  Every release is 100% new cards.



#7 fritsk

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 09:07 AM

Okidoki.

And what about the disparity between coreset and expansions? It seems that the coresets have 1 copy of a card and the expansions have 3 copies of each card. Of might we same the same 3x distribution in the core set with this game?



#8 dboeren

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 09:11 AM

We're not sure what the Core set will have yet.  The Call of Cthulhu Core set has 1x copies of all cards in it.  The Lord of the Rings Core set has a mix of 1x, 2x, 3x.  I've already started another thread asking about this but there is no official answer yet.

I'm pretty sure there is no chance the Core set will have 3x all cards, that would not show new player enough different cards to give a good overview of the game.



#9 fritsk

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 09:34 AM

Whoops, missed the thread about card distribution. Sorry



#10 booored

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 11:29 AM

The LCG is just a slightly different way to get your cash than a CGG. It is nearly identical in most things apart form the fact that in the long run it is cheaper.. as in a LOT cheaper… but that is not to say that it is no expensive.

There are 2 major problems with the LCG moddel.

Unlike say "Magic the Gathering" there is no cycling out of sets. This means that late commers to the party have a HUGE outlay of cash to be able to play even remotely competitively. For example.. if you tried to play CoC now and didn't want to get crushed .. due to CoC having so many factions (this game has 7 now apparently) and each pack only having like 1 or 2 cards per faction… a good deck requires you to own like 80% of all the packs ever released. This means to be competitive, you basically need to own the entire game archive. So a new commer to coc has a initial outlay of 100s and 100s of dollars b4 they can even play at the local game store with older players.

This is a MASSIVE problem with the LCG model. One they could fix by selling faction packs. It isn't the LCG model itself that is the problem, it is the fact that the cards are spread so far apart.. as in only 1 or 2 cards per faction per pack… to get a deck you need lots of packs.

The 2nd problem is not the LCGs fault.. but I see it in a lot of players… something about how the LCG is.. I am not sure. but it is super addictive. You think you will not spend to much.. it is sort of advertised as "pick and choose what pack you want to build "x" deck… but in reality you are adding a monthly charge to your bills. Most players will buy every pack as they are released. This can add up fast. Again, this is cause that so few cards for w/e faction you like is released at any time.

Again that is not really FFGs fault.. but it is something to be aware of. If you liek the game chances are you will buy everything.

Still the other problem is real and terrible. Like if you like this game and have a bunch of packs and a mate really likes it after playing at your house one morning after a night at the pub.. then he will NEVER be able to buy his own cards and play independently of you unless he wants to fork out 5-600 bucks in one go to buy the entire collection.

So start buying from the very start is my advise.
 


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#11 dboeren

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 11:44 AM

I agree that coming in late can leave you feeling like you want to buy everything that's out, which can be expensive.

But this is your choice, it's not forced on you.  You don't need to own everything to make a good deck.  You will need more than just a Core set, sure, but not everything there is.  Take any high level tournament deck and list off the source of all the cards and I'll bet there are lots of packs that aren't used at all.

I started playing Call of Cthluhu a little over a year ago.  In that time, I've gradually collected most of the expansions.  I still don't have the Dreamlands cycle (waiting for the reprint), or my 3rd Core set (I only have 2), and I haven't picked up the latest pack yet (supposed to get it Tuesday).  But, that's happened over about a 13-14 month period, and because I wanted to.  I could have skipped a lot more and still felt like I could make plenty of good decks from it.

 



#12 Toqtamish

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 12:10 PM

I started playing Game of Thrones at the end of the Kings Landing cycle, so I was already 3 cycles plus a few deluxe expansions behind. In that time I have caught up and own every card. It took a few months to do so but it can be done. Just don't expect to do it overnight unless you have an insane amount of disposable income then go right ahead.



#13 qwertyuiop

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 02:00 PM

fritsk said:

Okidoki.

And what about the disparity between coreset and expansions? It seems that the coresets have 1 copy of a card and the expansions have 3 copies of each card. Of might we same the same 3x distribution in the core set with this game?

You will never see a core set released with 3x of all the cards. Unless FFG wanted to also include suggested deck lists with the packaging, 3x of all cards in a core set makes for a cumbersome game. All the starters in the LCGs i've played (except maybe CoC) have been highly playable right out of the box. To get multiples of the really nice X1 cards in the core set means buying more core sets…. but this is meant to be an entry level product and not a complete set.



#14 booored

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 08:12 PM

@dboeren

What?! You do not own Dreamlands? This is shocking me!


"People should be less concerned about whether they are being insulted and more concerned if it is the truth"

#15 dboeren

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 04:36 AM

booored said:

@dboeren

What?! You do not own Dreamlands? This is shocking me!

I wasn't willing to pay for 3 copies of each pack under the old printing model.  Actually though, just this past week I was given a copy of 3x all the Common cards from Dreamlands by a friend of mine who *did* buy 3 copies of each pack and thus has a surplus of these cards.  So, I guess that means that now I have half of the Dreamlands cards.  I'll still buy the real packs once they're reprinted to get the other half.



#16 evilidler

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:10 PM

dboeren said:

I wasn't willing to pay for 3 copies of each pack under the old printing model.

I've got a massive number of playable decks from just 18 packs (plus some 60-card reprints of a few 40-card packs), one deluxe and one core. Getting the 60-card reprints should be low priority, but when you do you can have many decks ready for battle with variations :)

The first Summons of the Deep pack gave me three of some nice item, spare copies of a character I was using and another 3x a monster to stick into another deck. I've also got some of the good, old CCG cards cheap off eBay to pad out. I only play with my own decks anyway. A friend picks two decks, chooses which to play, off we go. I've got some monodecks, some combinations, generally only using 2 factions and occasional neutrals. I haven't even gotten into making conspiracy decks yet, which I think might be fun. I'm just trying to make thematic decks as good as possible, then my gaming friends benefit as much as me. If you can't choose between three great old ones, why not pick all three and let the course of the game decide for you? 3x every card is so boring ;)

 



#17 jhaelen

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 01:38 AM

booored said:

Unlike say "Magic the Gathering" there is no cycling out of sets. This means that late commers to the party have a HUGE outlay of cash to be able to play even remotely competitively.
Well, when did Magic start cylcing out sets? IIRC, this started only after thousands of cards had already been released. Cards for the LCGs are released at a much slower rate, e.g. CoC has only just reached 1000+ cards.

In theory there's nothing preventing FFG from deciding to cycle sets out at some point in the future.

And besides, LCGs are _still_ a lot cheaper if your goal is to get a complete playset.

 



#18 dboeren

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 02:46 AM

I think as important as when is why.

Cycling out cards helps keep the pressure on to have to buy new stuff, otherwise customers with a bunch of OP cards from earlier sets may be able to remain competitive with them.  It acts as a release valve on power creep, which is very useful in a game which is intentionally unbalanced.  It also helps get rid of old mistakes and help clear the design space.  New cards can come in which wouldn't have been used while a more powerful alternative existed.

I'm not sure any of these apply to an LCG.  Now you have a game with a much smaller pool (no need to clear design space for a LONG time), plus it's a game which tries to keep balance so you don't need to prod people towards abandoning old cards to buy new ones.  People will buy the new cards to expand their play, and because they're minimally priced compared to a CCG.



#19 Toqtamish

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 03:06 AM

LCG's have restricted and banned lists to do the balancing instead of card cycling out. No LCG has cycled out any cards.



#20 booored

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 06:14 AM

this isn't an argument of ccg models vs lcg models. There is no doubt that the LCG model is better for the player cash wise in the long run. The fact still remains though that if you come late to the game there is a huge outlay to just START playing, while in a ccg model with cycling all you need to do is by cards in the current cycle and you are right in the thick of competitive play.

In a LCG if you come late then you need to buy many packs all in one go.. a game like aGoT this is 100s and 100s of dollars. A cost you need to spend b4 you can even play a single game, unless you all start at the same time of course.

This is the biggest failing in the lcg model, one that could be fixed or at least lessened with faction packs rather than mixed factions packs i think. It is also sort of a hidden cost. The LCG is marketed as a pick and pay kind of system were you can choose what packs you want to build a certain deck, but the fact that each pack only has 1 or 2 card for each faction means that the decks are spread over the entire release of the lcg. Go an look in any of the LCG forum deck lists if you want proof.

Again this isn't a chat about lcg vs ccg… this is a unique problem in teh ffg lcg model and one new players are largely unaware of and should be. The reality is, that if you want to play this game you need to buy a pack once a month and every month.. witch is eactl;y what most people do.. and if you fall behind and then decide to start playing at teh local store or enter a comp, then you will have to buy all the packs you missed b4 you can even make a deck.

 

LCG's have restricted and banned lists to do the balancing instead of card cycling out. No LCG has cycled out any cards.

Exactly my point,


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