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The Fluff of 40K is in Danger


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#1 Alekzanter

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 01:33 PM

 I just read something very dismaying over on the Dakka forums about some fluff regarding the Tau being shoehorned into the Pre-Heresy timeline, how the Emperor intended them to be the "ultimate weapon" against Chaos and the corrupting powers of the Warp and how the Ultramarines are supposedly going to be their minders/babysitters/guardian faeries…

Oh, but there's more…

Evidently GW has to sign off on all W40KRPG fluff, and if they say the Tau and the Ultramarines are kissing cousins then FFG has to reflect such in their ongoing fluff. Da feth, you say!?

New Canis Salient Talent (Ultramarines): Butt Wiping the Tau, Cost: Your Dignity.

Anyone?



#2 Maese Mateo

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 03:16 PM

Do you know where this information is written?

 

I couldn't find anything that suggests that in the Lexicanum.



#3 Alekzanter

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 04:05 PM

 There is speculation and rumor being bandied about regarding the upcoming 6th Edition of 40K. I just wondered if anyone else had heard something to substantiate or debunk this cripe. An FFG developer/writer/whatev responded regarding GW's yeah/nay of fluff, and now I'm worried the Emperor is going to be rewritten as a vegan lesbian goddess.

There are also rumors of the 40K timeline being advanced into the 42M…



#4 Gurkhal

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 05:16 PM

Alekzanter said:

 There is speculation and rumor being bandied about regarding the upcoming 6th Edition of 40K. I just wondered if anyone else had heard something to substantiate or debunk this cripe. An FFG developer/writer/whatev responded regarding GW's yeah/nay of fluff, and now I'm worried the Emperor is going to be rewritten as a vegan lesbian goddess.

There are also rumors of the 40K timeline being advanced into the 42M…

 

Sounds like just some wierd rumor. Do you know what sources have leaked it because otherwise I'm afraid I'd have to call it BS.



#5 Nearyn

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 08:00 PM

Is Matt Ward involved in the 6th edition writeup? Because if he is, then these things could very easily be the future of 40K :).

That is, of course, as long as being the babysitters of 'the emprahs ultimate weapons' is a very important, highly respected, and immensely prestigeful task, that allows Ultrasmurf players to field tau weapons in tabletop :)

 

You can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs.

 

You can't make a new iteration of 40K without breaking the armies in Ward's favour :)



#6 Luthor Harkon

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 10:59 PM

Alekzanter said:

There are also rumors of the 40K timeline being advanced into the 42M…

 

Yes, for ages actually. I doubt it none the less; GW made a very bad experience with advancing the timeline in Fantasy. Fastest retcon ever only months afterwards…



#7 macd21

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 11:34 PM

Alekzanter said:

 I just read something very dismaying over on the Dakka forums about some fluff regarding the Tau being shoehorned into the Pre-Heresy timeline, how the Emperor intended them to be the "ultimate weapon" against Chaos and the corrupting powers of the Warp and how the Ultramarines are supposedly going to be their minders/babysitters/guardian faeries…

Relax. I think someone is misinterpreting some fluff.

There have long been hints about the origin and purpose of the Tau, which has led to some theories. One thing that is fairly certain is that they were influenced by the Eldar (who introduced the Ethereals). Beyond that there's a lot of speculation. It's possible that they were initially created by the Old Ones, who never had the chance to fully develope them. There's also been some hints that the Emperor is an Old One, or somehow connected to them. I think someone took these two pieces of speculation, put them together and then got wombat.



#8 H.B.M.C.

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 01:58 AM

It's not misinterpreting anything. It's almost a direct quote from the guy reporting the rumours. Of course, no one believes the rumours, but we've been burnt before.

I for one will never see my Ultramarines side with, let alone protect, the filthy Tau!!!

BYE



#9 Braddoc

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 02:41 AM

Speaking of, when is the fabled 6th Ed rulebook scheduled to show up?



#10 H.B.M.C.

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 03:05 AM

July apparently. Depends if they squeeze another Codex in before its release.

BYE



#11 N0-1_H3r3

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 06:40 AM

Alekzanter said:

There are also rumors of the 40K timeline being advanced into the 42M…

Those rumours also cropped up before 4th edition, and before 5th edition as well.

Beyond that… a lot of the time, rumours take on a life of their own and end up being distorted beyond all recognition from their originating source (which may or may not be accurate in the first place). Internet rumours in particular are bad for this, given how hyperbole is so frequently employed on the Internet.


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#12 Adeptus-B

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 08:37 AM

My 2 Thrones:

The 40Kverse exists for the primary purpose of selling large quantities of wargame miniatures- everything else is secondary. Toward that end, the background of the 40Kverse and its various factions have been carefully designed to allow everyone to fight everyone in the wargame- the fluff even contains rationale to allow forces on the same side to fight each other, so as not to disallow some wargame match-ups and thus discourage miniature sales. So, the idea that GW would alter the background material to disallow two armies from fighting each other? Sounds highly unlikely to me…



#13 Lynata

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 01:39 AM

I wouldn't be so worried, tbh.

Contrary to common beliefs which (as some people might remember) I too used to hold for a very long time, the fluff of 40k has always been somewhat inconsistent and is not enforced across the franchise's various platforms. I came to realize this after long debates and careful analysis of various statements by the people who have to know:

"With Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000, the notion of canon is a fallacy. […] Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 exist as tens of thousands of overlapping realities in the imaginations of games developers, writers, readers and gamers. None of those interpretations is wrong."
- Gav Thorpe, on his blog (http://mechanicalham...ping-the-fence/)

"It all stems from the assumption that there’s a binding contract between author and reader to adhere to some nonexistent subjective construct or ‘true’ representation of the setting. There is no such contract, and no such objective truth."
- Andy Hoare, on ADB's blog (http://www.boomtron....ii-loose-canon/)

Of course it is possible that FFG might still adopt any changes to the setting put forward by GW, either out of choice or because - for whatever reason - GW treats FFG differently and with stricter rules than it treats the Black Library. However, looking at this RPG's already existing conflicts with studio material, I don't think this is a likely outcome. Various big and small deviations make it evident that BL and FFG have always preferred to "tweak" things a little if it makes for a (subjectively) better game, depending on what they were writing at the time. What's more, a retcon as big as what is being hinted at here would invariably invalidate a lot of earlier books from FFG's RPGs - a situation that makes it somewhat attractive to simply stick to what the RPGs have established for themselves. After all, drastic changes to a setting are way more difficult to introduce in P&P RPGs that feature long and ongoing campaigns rather than the tabletop business where the majority of people's armies isn't even that fleshed out in terms of fluff and may change its face from day to day.

Worst case: Even if GW would force the issue, FFG can always opt to simply not publish anything new about the Tau and simply "forget to mention" this in any material about the Marines. It's how, according to his own words, Aaron Dembski-Bowden chose to deal with most of the stuff he doesn't like, apparently rarely contradicting it outright.

Also, there's what Adeptus-B wrote about the necessary hostility between armies.

In conclusion, I've seen way more believable rumors that turned out to be false, so … I wouldn't panic just yet.


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#14 klaymen_sk

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 03:29 AM

I'd wait for the real new rulebook, instead of relying on hearsay rumours.



#15 Braddoc

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 05:57 AM

If I recall ity right, weren't the Tau in Pre-Heresy already, as a retarded, prmitive civilization discovered by Rogue Trader What's-his-Name and were saved from being bombed to hell with a timely Warp Storm?

And Side-note : Welcome back Lynata!



#16 macd21

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 10:55 AM

H.B.M.C. said:

It's not misinterpreting anything. It's almost a direct quote from the guy reporting the rumours. Of course, no one believes the rumours, but we've been burnt before.

 

Yes… that would be the guy doing the misinterpreting.



#17 isaiah

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 05:47 PM

Braddoc said:

If I recall ity right, weren't the Tau in Pre-Heresy already, as a retarded, prmitive civilization discovered by Rogue Trader What's-his-Name and were saved from being bombed to hell with a timely Warp Storm?

Post-Heresy

From the lexicanum

T'au, the Tau home planet, was discovered in 789.M35 by the Adeptus Mechanicus ship Land's Vision. Adeptus Mechanicus records indicate that at that time, the Tau species had mastered the use of simple tools and weapons, as well as fire. Before the planet could be cleansed and colonized by the Imperium, however, a violent Warp-storm erupted around the planet. This continued for 6,000 years, making the Tau's homeworld utterly inaccessible.

It was not until the Damocles Crusade that the Imperium again contacted the Tau. The Imperium found the primitive Tau had advanced considerably. In six thousand years, the Tau had advanced from spears and fire to colonizing planets and pulse rifles.



#18 Kasatka

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 03:04 AM

 The big danger with rumours is that - they aren't fact and anyone who rushes around crowing about them either positively or negatively is only furthering them.

Now i don't personally care what they do with the fluff of 40k tabeletop. Yes, it has a knock on effect to the novels and RP material that can be published, but i don't know of anyone who RPs and sticks to the game books like they are the (insert holy book of religion-X here). It's a basis and there's no need to get butt-hurt if it's not the same as it was 5, 10 or even 20 years ago when we were all kids playing the same hobby. Times change, and it's how well we handle the change that is a telling sign of a communities maturity.

For example, the necrons in Black Crusade were a pre-cursor to the new Necron codex. They are mentioned as acting strangely and gathering resources and entering into agreements with other sentient creatures within the Screaming Vortex. Existing fans of the setting will know that Necrons below Lords aren't really sentient and don't communicate, that Lords have entire fleets at their disposal and that the Warp and Necrons do not in any way mix, hence why they don't use warp drives, don't have psykers etc. Matt Ward raped all of what we knew about the Necrons and obviously FFG were given fair warning about this, but kudos for only subtly changing the entry on Necrons. And ultimately we can all just ignore it and do as we wish - over time the feedback about certain content not being used will filter back to FFG content writers, and it'll get dropped from future supplements.


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