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Tau Ignorance of Chaos


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#1 Gurkhal

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 05:06 AM

I have a short question. That is just how ignorant of Chaos are the Tau? Could a group of Chaos Space Marines approach the Tau, sell them a line about being Space Marines who left the Imperium and now have seen the wisdom of the Greater Good and expect to be accepted, even if perhaps grudingly by the Tau?

The scenario I'm thinking about is that a group of followers of Chaos have infiltrated the Tau to make the aliens do some heavy work for them. Could this work or would the Tau be on their guard since they've have hostile contact with the Stigmaticus (or whatever they are called).



#2 TheHeavenlyLily

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 06:06 AM

 Tau cannot see the Warp and they don't travel through it. Their ships are FTL capable but that is also why their empire is so small because they rely on technologies that are not as efficient in long distance travel has other races (by the same token this is how the Necrons travel). Nor do they have any kind of psychic power. But as per the fluff of the setting the Tau are taking an interest in the Warp Drives of other races to see if they can make use of it. But they understand the danger the Warp represents and are not ignorant of the Imperium or the Chaos Marines. More often than one may think the Imperium has allied with the Tau, and actually upheld the truce once that conflict was over.



#3 herichimo

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 06:21 AM

Well the Tau are aware of chaos. They are aware of their followers and daemons. But they are not fully aware of its threat (I'd say 60-70% aware). Mainly because the chaos gods and chaos daemons aren't very interested in the Tau, and the Tau may be slightly resistant to the allure to chaos.

This does not mean the Tau are gullible to become slaves to random space marines. The Tau may be a little naive concerning galactic scale, but they are also fairly self-centered. They don't want to co-exist and work with everyone, they want everyone to exist together and work under them. They aren't going to simply subordinate themselves to a random dude who comes around and saying, "look at me, you should really do what I say."

If the space marines try to infiltrate the Tau the Tau will be really smart and ruthless with them. They would accept them sure, but on their terms. The warband would likely be split up with each member put under the command (read: watchful eye) of a Tau leader. They would be denied their autonomy and allowed to act only when the Tau wish them to. Their technology (power armor, power weapons, bolters, etc.) would be confiscated for study with "replacements" given until such time their gear has been "improved" (bugged, fail-safed, etc.) and returned.

They do the same with all Guel'la, sterilizing humans who turn to them and making them second class citizens. The Tau really aren't that nice.



#4 Gurkhal

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 07:20 AM

TheHeavenlyLily said:


Tau cannot see the Warp and they don't travel through it. Their ships are FTL capable but that is also why their empire is so small because they rely on technologies that are not as efficient in long distance travel has other races (by the same token this is how the Necrons travel). Nor do they have any kind of psychic power. But as per the fluff of the setting the Tau are taking an interest in the Warp Drives of other races to see if they can make use of it. But they understand the danger the Warp represents and are not ignorant of the Imperium or the Chaos Marines. More often than one may think the Imperium has allied with the Tau, and actually upheld the truce once that conflict was over.

 

You are right in that the Tau don't travel through the Warp and that's the reason why I would think the Tau might be interested in getting their hands on some Warp tech. In regards to Imperium and xenos its true that the Imperium can ally with aliens if needed no problem, but when the alliance isn't needed its back to "extermination on sight" policy again.

herichimo said:

Well the Tau are aware of chaos. They are aware of their followers and daemons. But they are not fully aware of its threat (I'd say 60-70% aware). Mainly because the chaos gods and chaos daemons aren't very interested in the Tau, and the Tau may be slightly resistant to the allure to chaos.

Very true, but are the Tau capable of detecing Chaos taint in the same manner as say the Imperium and the Eldar are? In the case of resistance I would say that its more to do with the daemons being uninterested in the Tau than the Tau having a resistance on their own. In practice it should however be fairly close.

And do they really understand the difference between aggressions of the followers of Chaos and say the Imperium? Because without and understanding the two of them might seem fairly close in a general love for war/total intolerance and wish to victimize others.

herichimo said:

This does not mean the Tau are gullible to become slaves to random space marines. The Tau may be a little naive concerning galactic scale, but they are also fairly self-centered. They don't want to co-exist and work with everyone, they want everyone to exist together and work under them. They aren't going to simply subordinate themselves to a random dude who comes around and saying, "look at me, you should really do what I say."

No, of course they won't bow down to the Marines. The idea I'm thinking about is that a bunch of smooth talking Marines comes along to offer themselves and tell the Tau about a certain knowlege regarding Warp travel that can be found, and that the Tau lets a few of these Marines be part in an operation to find this info and bring it back to the Tau as the Tau might consider this option to have both Space Marines working for them and the possibility of getting a bit further on the road to develop Warp-engines to be worth taking the Marines on their offer, or a least a few of them.

Not all the Marines will be able to get out again but their leader might bull them to get along with the plan and only really care about getting some influence over the Tau so nudge them a little in his desired direction - outright control will of course be out of the question.

herichimo said:

If the space marines try to infiltrate the Tau the Tau will be really smart and ruthless with them. They would accept them sure, but on their terms. The warband would likely be split up with each member put under the command (read: watchful eye) of a Tau leader. They would be denied their autonomy and allowed to act only when the Tau wish them to. Their technology (power armor, power weapons, bolters, etc.) would be confiscated for study with "replacements" given until such time their gear has been "improved" (bugged, fail-safed, etc.) and returned.

That seems reasonable and something that the Marines could work around as it would give the Tau as sense of control over the Marines which could lead to them allowing the Marines to spread both the corruption as well as making the Tau listen to their suggestions. Do you think that the Tau would keep the Marines closee enough to allow the Marines to cultivate influence, and perhaps spread their corruption, to Tau leaders?

herichimo said:

They do the same with all Guel'la, sterilizing humans who turn to them and making them second class citizens. The Tau really aren't that nice.

I agree entirely. The Tau gets way to much goodie-goodie PR to do them justice.



#5 N0-1_H3r3

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 08:06 AM

Gurkhal said:

 

I agree entirely. The Tau gets way to much goodie-goodie PR to do them justice.

Well, to be fair, they are one of the few factions in 40k who actually bother with a PR department.


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#6 Kshatriya

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 08:15 AM

The Tau also have psychic races as part of their Empire, so they shouldn't be completely ignorant even if they don't use a normal warp drive.



#7 macd21

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 11:38 PM

Gurkhal said:

 

You are right in that the Tau don't travel through the Warp and that's the reason why I would think the Tau might be interested in getting their hands on some Warp tech.

The Tau have done some research into Warp Tech. They decided it was very much not for them.

That said I think the Tau would probably be willing to work with a group of CSMs, but they would be careful about it.



#8 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 07:38 PM

By 40K standards, the Tau are angels. There is simply no contest.



#9 professor_kylan

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 08:01 PM

Expansionistic, communist, mind-wiping, eugenically enhanced, angels. They're almost sweet, in that they are simply monstrous instead of actual monsters :P



#10 Blood Pact

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 02:37 AM

I wouldn't pay any mind to the rumours floating around, concerning the Tau being the Emperor's secret weapon / saviours of the galaxy. Sounds like a lot of /tg/ fakery to me.



#11 venkelos

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 08:12 AM

macd21 said:

Gurkhal said:

 

 

You are right in that the Tau don't travel through the Warp and that's the reason why I would think the Tau might be interested in getting their hands on some Warp tech.

 

The Tau have done some research into Warp Tech. They decided it was very much not for them.

That said I think the Tau would probably be willing to work with a group of CSMs, but they would be careful about it.

I can certainly imagine the Tau harnessing the power of warp travel, by claiming a group of people for themselves who can warp travel, sort of like a Navigator's Guild held at gun point; when they decide to reach their "massive expansion" phase, having the faster movement might help immensely.

Of course, they could also gain access to the Webway, if they really are a weapon prepped by the Eldar, and this could cover their base, as well as increase their power greatly. It might be sort of interesting to be in a game where the Tau and Eldar are a bit allied.



#12 herichimo

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:01 AM

venkelos said:

macd21 said:

I can certainly imagine the Tau harnessing the power of warp travel, by claiming a group of people for themselves who can warp travel, sort of like a Navigator's Guild held at gun point; when they decide to reach their "massive expansion" phase, having the faster movement might help immensely.

Of course, they could also gain access to the Webway, if they really are a weapon prepped by the Eldar, and this could cover their base, as well as increase their power greatly. It might be sort of interesting to be in a game where the Tau and Eldar are a bit allied.

Except first the Tau would have to understand warp travel on the level of the Imperium. Which requires several things they do not have available.

First: They would need to have an understanding of psychic power. To create gellar fields and the like which are not needed in their current method of warp jumps.

Second: They do not have access to psykers capable of navigating the warp. Kroot warspheres and kroot warp jumps are migratory and instinctual, kroot can only travel to inhabited worlds. Additionally the kroot keep their method of warp travel secret from the Tau, why or how I don't know, but they do. The Nicassar may be psykers, but they do not travel in the warp. Their convoys only travel at sub-light speeds. The Vespid never left their own world before the Tau arrived and thus had no inherit warp or even space travel ability themselves. The Demiurg may (or may not) travel through the warp. But, they are not a subject race of the Tau. They are trading partners and hire themselves out as mercenaries (at least their ships), but they do not answer to the ethereals (and honestly never should, they're too proud).

The Tau already use real warp drives, very similar in function to Imperial drives, they simply cannot complete a full transition into the warp for lack of an equivalent navigator gene. Even if they could, without gellar fields their ships would be ravaged almost instantly and without navigators they'd be hopelessly lost.

 

The whole Tau/Eldar thing is so flimsy it couldn't hold up to a sneeze honestly.



#13 macd21

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 12:03 PM

venkelos said:

 

I can certainly imagine the Tau harnessing the power of warp travel, by claiming a group of people for themselves who can warp travel, sort of like a Navigator's Guild held at gun point; when they decide to reach their "massive expansion" phase, having the faster movement might help immensely.

That's just it - they considered it. They researched it. They were considering using it for the 4th phase of expansion. After conducting their research they decided the warp wasn't something they wanted to deal with.

Which kinda points to them being more sensible than most races in 40k :P






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