Jump to content



Photo

Interesting thing regarding reaction tokens…


  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 Azrell

Azrell

    Member

  • Members
  • 113 posts

Posted 05 May 2012 - 05:50 PM

 This just doesn’t seen right… but if you get the first unit phase and take both actions with a unit that does not have a reaction token on it, like say move/move, then during your opponents unit phase that unit is still allowed to make a reaction! As it does not yet have a reaction token. Allowing the unit to essentially take 3 actions over the course of the turn?

The best use of this would be to move/move a unit up next to units that are suppressed or got reaction tokens during the command phase then when your opponent goes to activate them you can react, letting you move/move than open up on a unit.

Can find anything that say this isn’t how it would play out, as you can react if you don’t have a reaction token. If its turn it a really interesting mechanic. Thoughts?



#2 felkor

felkor

    Member

  • Members
  • 998 posts

Posted 05 May 2012 - 07:47 PM

I posted this under a different thread so won't go in as much detail, but I wondered about this same thing and found it not to be as big of an issue as I originally thought.  One of the advantages of the responding player, for instance, is that that they can suppress the initiating player in the command phase and the initiating player won't be able to just regroup the units like the responding player is able to.

Also, if players use suppression wisely, there aren't a heck of a lot of reactions anyway.



#3 caecitas

caecitas

    Member

  • Members
  • 180 posts

Posted 06 May 2012 - 04:27 AM

felkor is right, it isnt as big a deal as people have made it to be.

 

first players command

second players command

first plays unit phase

second players unit phase

 

with that list in mind it is true the first player can both have 2 actions on the unit phase and a reaction, yet on average the first player will have the least number of units and will always have the least number of command points. Note the second player can both use a command action to attack, then his single action in his unit phase to attack, generally putting his thumb down on the enemy. Its true a small force can squeeze a lot of attacks out of what it has, yet this advantage is offset by being out numbered.



#4 Grim6

Grim6

    Member

  • Members
  • 93 posts

Posted 06 May 2012 - 04:33 AM

I look at it this way: the reaction / action mechanism isn't a zero sum equation.  If you push your guys to go first (with an action during command phase) then they miss out one of their 3 potential moves (2 actions + reaction).  If you take it nice and easy, and just let them move during unit phase, then they are better prepared to react.  If you have the initiative (you get your troops moving before your opponent), then it's easier to get your guys in place and have then do more stuff, so it adds up.

You do get some advantage with initiative, and you can pace your units as you see fit.  I think it works out great, and really makes you weigh when you want to push or hold back.



#5 blkdymnd

blkdymnd

    Member

  • Members
  • 958 posts

Posted 06 May 2012 - 04:43 AM

 And remember, when you're getting initiative a lot, it probably means you're not doing so well anyway and may need those couple extra activations/reactions :)



#6 Azrell

Azrell

    Member

  • Members
  • 113 posts

Posted 06 May 2012 - 05:47 AM

blkdymnd said:

 And remember, when you're getting initiative a lot, it probably means you're not doing so well anyway and may need those couple extra activations/reactions :)

 

or that you took heavy walkers and your opponent did not. 



#7 Azrell

Azrell

    Member

  • Members
  • 113 posts

Posted 06 May 2012 - 05:48 AM

blkdymnd said:

 And remember, when you're getting initiative a lot, it probably means you're not doing so well anyway and may need those couple extra activations/reactions :)

blkdymnd said:

 And remember, when you're getting initiative a lot, it probably means you're not doing so well anyway and may need those couple extra activations/reactions :)

 

or that you took heavy walkers and your opponent did not. 



#8 caecitas

caecitas

    Member

  • Members
  • 180 posts

Posted 06 May 2012 - 05:54 AM

great - the less damage an opponant can put out the better. Let him keep his huge brick of DC and armor rolls.



#9 ZombiEd

ZombiEd

    Member

  • Members
  • 54 posts

Posted 06 May 2012 - 03:49 PM

Azrell said:

 This just doesn’t seen right… but if you get the first unit phase and take both actions with a unit that does not have a reaction token on it, like say move/move, then during your opponents unit phase that unit is still allowed to make a reaction! As it does not yet have a reaction token. Allowing the unit to essentially take 3 actions over the course of the turn?

I look at it this way, that is one of the benefits of winning initiative.  As long as you don't have a reaction or suppression marker, you can move twice in your unit phase, and then react in your opponents.  Since you won initiative, that means your opponent has more commands he can give in his command phase, To prevent you from doing that, he could shoot grenades or something at these units that are setting up for a reaction to prevent that.  Not only does it prevent you from reacting, but it also cuts down on the number of actions you will get.  I bet if you do that 3 action trick many times, you will find those units targeted in his command phase more often.



#10 caecitas

caecitas

    Member

  • Members
  • 180 posts

Posted 06 May 2012 - 04:04 PM

Eds got his war face on - hes right. With experience in this game comes the knowlege that you need to make sure that the player with initiative is pinned down when within 12 inches of one of your own units. A single supression marker results in only 1 action in the unit phase (with a 1/3 chance of removing it so you can have the full 2), and potentially no reaction. However, nothing says you cant trade in that 3 action trick for using a command point to hit the slower side first, stopping them from pulling this trick.

 

Its swings and round abouts really



#11 Galadhir

Galadhir

    Member

  • Members
  • 84 posts

Posted 07 May 2012 - 01:59 AM

I see that this mechanic is tricky, but I think it was a way to balance the game. But I've got some problems with it.

Firstly choosing dice to determine initiative is crazy, what if you are loosing allready and somehow lost the initiative? you are gonna suffer greatly. Dice are random and this should be resolved in other way.

Secondly choosing unit count to determine dice is prone to abuse from people who will for sure field the most expensive units just to have better chances of getting initiative and looking at units how their's effectiveness changed because of cover and armor saves I would think that picking arm 2 units is pointless. The only way to make it work somehow would be to have point value determine the dice or something but that would be tedious to follow.



#12 Grim6

Grim6

    Member

  • Members
  • 93 posts

Posted 07 May 2012 - 05:27 AM

Galadhir said:

I see that this mechanic is tricky, but I think it was a way to balance the game. But I've got some problems with it.

Firstly choosing dice to determine initiative is crazy, what if you are loosing allready and somehow lost the initiative? you are gonna suffer greatly. Dice are random and this should be resolved in other way.

Secondly choosing unit count to determine dice is prone to abuse from people who will for sure field the most expensive units just to have better chances of getting initiative and looking at units how their's effectiveness changed because of cover and armor saves I would think that picking arm 2 units is pointless. The only way to make it work somehow would be to have point value determine the dice or something but that would be tedious to follow.

I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of leadership effects (a la AT-43), where certain leaders give you bonuses or ways to modify the amount of dice you roll to determine initiative.  Maybe certain leaders, or having a hero as a leader, could allow you to change the number of dice rolled or the die outcome, similar to what Stefan does for the scenario setup.  

That said, in the end, I do think it balances out.  Sure, you may go first, but if your opponent can setup the unit turn by suppressing your key squads, it might be a wash anyways.






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS