Jump to content



Photo

Telekenisis - Pyschic Blade - Broken errata, Impossible to hit yourself ?


  • Please log in to reply
51 replies to this topic

#1 624

624

    Member

  • Members
  • 9 posts

Posted 05 May 2012 - 01:18 PM

 Psychic Blade on page 177 should include the addition: “When rolling a 95-00 while attacking with a Psychic Blade, a stray thought causes the psyker to attack and automatically strike the  nearest being within melee range. If there are several targets, the psyker strikes the one that is most signi? cant to his emotional state. If there is no one in range, he automatically strikes himself.”

Hi,

Our group pysker is reading this errata, that as long as he is fighting an enemy, such a pressing concern of not dying will mean that he will never be able to hit himself unless he starts waving the sword around when noone else is there, something that sounds ridicukous as why would you be using a melee power outside of combat ?. Does anyone have the correct/official interpretation of this errata as it is beginning to annoy me that essentially if a psyker roleplays a self hating coward he can essentially count 95-100 as a hit, any enemies or others near him will always be more significant to his emotional state in this case. Just seems to wrong that the only way he could ever possibly hit himself with it is if he is practising with it somewhere outside of combat whereas an eviscerator, which has a similar effect, if you miss to such a degree pays you back for the power it gives you.

Any help would be appreciated,

Thanks

James



#2 624

624

    Member

  • Members
  • 9 posts

Posted 07 May 2012 - 07:14 AM

 Additionally does the psychic blade count as a primitive weapon as the description "treat as a sword" would suggest, or rather as a mono weapon as the "one molecule thick" part of the description would suggest. Only asking as this would mean the difference between storm trooper carapace being able to absorb some of the damage and termie armour being the only protection 



#3 Darth Smeg

Darth Smeg

    Lord Nitpicker

  • Members
  • 1,693 posts

Posted 07 May 2012 - 09:01 AM

624 said:

Only asking as this would mean the difference between storm trooper carapace being able to absorb some of the damage and termie armour being the only protection 

Doesn't really matter as the Psychic Blade has a Penetration of 2x WPB, which is likely to be at lest 10, maybe 12 by the time the Psyker can reliably use this power.

 


Tarald - The Dark Lord of Smeg

You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on

 

My House Rules for using Only War (and more) for Dark Heresy games


#4 624

624

    Member

  • Members
  • 9 posts

Posted 07 May 2012 - 09:17 AM

 I know its a somewhat moot point but seeing as some in the party are at the point of almost being able to afford power armour it makes a difference to them. That part of the question is really just a clarification though, any thoughts on the first bit ?



#5 Exeviolthor

Exeviolthor

    Member

  • Members
  • 35 posts

Posted 07 May 2012 - 07:49 PM

I think that Darth Smeg's point is that since the penetration is practically 8, 10 or 12 there is no armour that can stop it.



#6 624

624

    Member

  • Members
  • 9 posts

Posted 07 May 2012 - 11:24 PM

If it is primitive there is. It currently has ap 10 due to our psykers willpower bonus so that means storm trooper carapace would stop 2pts. Any views on the main thrust of the question however ? I really don't care about the penetration element, it's just a caveat to the main question 



#7 Exeviolthor

Exeviolthor

    Member

  • Members
  • 35 posts

Posted 07 May 2012 - 11:55 PM

In the description of psychic blade it says that it is "imposibly thin, as little as a molecule thick". It also says to treat it as a sword, but I don't think that this refers to its damage potential. Therefore I think that it would be fair to say that it is not primitive.

 

Regarding the main question, the way we interpret it is that the psycher has to hit the nearest being within range other than the intended target. Therefore he has to hit himself if only the target is in range. Otherwise as you have already pointed out there is no way for the psycher to hit himself.

 



#8 Darth Smeg

Darth Smeg

    Lord Nitpicker

  • Members
  • 1,693 posts

Posted 08 May 2012 - 07:25 AM

The "treat as a sword" thing is unfortunate wording, and led to a looong thread some time back about whether you could manifest it twice, then dual wield and use other melee talents like Swift and Lightning attacks.

But remember: you cannot parry with the Psychic blade, nor does it require melee training to use. 

It is NOT a sword.

I guess the wording is intended to imply that it's range and application is like a sword, ie, you can't extend it to cut the chandelier hanging from the ceiling, nor can you do precision medical work with it. Basically, you (mentally) wave it about, and whoever stands next to you becomes a shish-kebab.


Tarald - The Dark Lord of Smeg

You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on

 

My House Rules for using Only War (and more) for Dark Heresy games


#9 624

624

    Member

  • Members
  • 9 posts

Posted 08 May 2012 - 11:36 AM

 Thanks for the help guys, we'll just have to convince the players who are reluctant that the RAW as discussed make no sense and need some interpretation for them to work properly, a one molecule thick primitve sword is ridiculous for example. Can't imagine our pysker will be happy though, last time we played he managed two "insta hits" on enemies 

Thanks again



#10 BrotherKane

BrotherKane

    Member

  • Members
  • 229 posts

Posted 08 May 2012 - 11:16 PM

I would argue that a stray thought entering the mind of a 'self hating coward' would result in him hitting himself!  The person most emotionally significant to that person in terms of 'doing harm' could easily be the self hater.  Sub-conciously he hates himself but can't bring himself to do anything about it because he is a coward.  Then his subconcious takes control of the blade on a 95-100…

One point I would make to them is that a roll of 95-100 should NEVER be advantageous except under the most unlikely cricumstances.  That is in the spirit of the rules if not in any actual letter of the rules.



#11 Elduir Darkwing

Elduir Darkwing

    Member

  • Members
  • 17 posts

Posted 09 May 2012 - 02:05 AM

 There are a few hallucination effects that cause you to attack enemies that don't exist. This would result in you hitting yourself.

 

Other than that, if you make a swing at someone, but they somehow are an illusion or a hologram or don't exist, or they disappear before your attack resolves, you hit yourself.



#12 624

624

    Member

  • Members
  • 9 posts

Posted 09 May 2012 - 05:40 AM

 Our pskyer is too clever to fall for that, he only uses it once people get to him, by that time if someone is popping in and or of view he will track them with his powers and as for a hologram or illusion pretty much the same, he will never be first to swing, someone else will have had their shot have no effect or blade go right through before he risks it. He knows the blade is dangerous so is cautious as to when he uses it, if he isn't certain he has a good chance of hitting he won't conjure it to begin with 



#13 Elduir Darkwing

Elduir Darkwing

    Member

  • Members
  • 17 posts

Posted 09 May 2012 - 05:59 AM

 Then the backlash of the blade isn't useless, you're psyker is just smart. You shouldn't penalize him for being smart. Perhaps, though, you could get him into a situation where he MUST strike first because if he doesn't, he'll die (the rest of the team is stunned), and then he'll have to start risking it. Trip him up. But don't change the rules of the sword just because he got smart. He's not metagaming, that's something a character really could do.



#14 Phi6891

Phi6891

    Member

  • Members
  • 189 posts

Posted 09 May 2012 - 08:45 AM

Darth Smeg said:

The "treat as a sword" thing is unfortunate wording, and led to a looong thread some time back about whether you could manifest it twice, then dual wield and use other melee talents like Swift and Lightning attacks.

But remember: you cannot parry with the Psychic blade, nor does it require melee training to use. 

It is NOT a sword.

I guess the wording is intended to imply that it's range and application is like a sword, ie, you can't extend it to cut the chandelier hanging from the ceiling, nor can you do precision medical work with it. Basically, you (mentally) wave it about, and whoever stands next to you becomes a shish-kebab.

Aw Darth Smeg you remembered. :D



#15 624

624

    Member

  • Members
  • 9 posts

Posted 09 May 2012 - 12:40 PM

 True, being smart is rewarded in the game, but going to such levels of messing with just him in order to get him to do that would be frankly ridiculous and if i was in his shoes id just up and leave due to the obvious attention to try and make his power not work the way he wants to, i wanted rules clarification not how to poison, trick and trip up your players 101.

I have no problem with him being smart, his use of it in such a smart way has alleviated the problem up until now as he isnt using it to dominate every encounter, just 'boss' or mass fights, my problem lies in getting insta hits against targets in one on one combat where clearly that is not how the rules were intended due to his interpretation of the 'crucial to his emotional state' phrase.

If he did however end up in a rare circumstance of swinging it around blindly (he bought a gas mask after the first time we used hallucenogen grenades) then yeh obviously he would hit himself, im not trying to ruin his game by any means, just make it fair on the CC characters in our party, who if they miss they just miss, well not in the case of the eviscerator wielding priest who if he failed similarly would probably be in two pieces. 



#16 Darth Smeg

Darth Smeg

    Lord Nitpicker

  • Members
  • 1,693 posts

Posted 09 May 2012 - 07:23 PM

Phi6891 said:

.

 

 

Aw Darth Smeg you remembered. :D

How could I forget? :)


Tarald - The Dark Lord of Smeg

You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on

 

My House Rules for using Only War (and more) for Dark Heresy games


#17 PnPgamer

PnPgamer

    Member

  • Members
  • 237 posts

Posted 09 May 2012 - 09:40 PM

as psychic blade is powerful as it is, you can cut through walls, doors, etc. and when you roll a 95-100 on that roll, you strike yourself.



#18 Yazstromo

Yazstromo

    Member

  • Members
  • 5 posts

Posted 12 May 2012 - 03:01 AM

Well, one could argue that, to a "self-hating coward", the person most significant to his emotional state is himself; not only does he have thoughts of "I hate myself so much" flying around his head, but also "Oh God-Emperor, I really don't want to die". Emphasis on himself being the subject of these thoughts. It says "a stray thought"; the human mind is a complex thing, and that stray thought could be of that time he was eating a really tasty piece of cake. 

The spirit of the rules is obviously not "rolling a 95-00 is a hit", it's supposed to be detrimental. I'd say that if he really wants to argue that the big bad guy standing in front of him is most significant to his emotional state, then just let it count as a miss. There's no way that rolling a 95-00 should be a good thing. The bad roll represents a lack of focus while wielding an imaginary blade in the heat of combat, and he needs to be punished for it. 



#19 Agénor

Agénor

    Member

  • Members
  • 17 posts

Posted 12 May 2012 - 01:01 PM

When you have your psyker fight an illusion, do you give him a Perception test under Psyniscience to realise his target has no thoughts just like you would give him one to realise his target makes no noise?



#20 bogi_khaosa

bogi_khaosa

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,153 posts

Posted 13 May 2012 - 05:30 AM

1. Psyniscience is a Full Action. It requires a conscious decision to use, unlike Awareness. The check isn't made unless the player says he wants to do it.. 2. Psynscience detects psychic powers and warp disturbances, not thoughts, although there is that detect presence thingie in the Inquisitor's Handbook.






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS