Jump to content



Photo

The forces of Chaos versus the Tyranids


  • Please log in to reply
19 replies to this topic

#1 Pallomides

Pallomides

    Member

  • Members
  • 52 posts

Posted 04 May 2012 - 12:43 AM

I have yet to find fluff about the forces of Chaos fighting the Tyranids. Do any of you have some Information about this.

I imagine that it would not be of interest to the Wordbearers if a planet that has just been converted to the old Gods gets overrun by the Tyranids. I would also Imagine that the World Eaters would find salvation when fighting against the Tyranids.



#2 Captain Ventris

Captain Ventris

    Member

  • Members
  • 302 posts

Posted 04 May 2012 - 04:30 AM

Only this extremely hardcore picture. From the Demon Codex, I believe.

Seriously though, that junk is COOL.



#3 Adeptus-B

Adeptus-B

    Part-Time Super Villian

  • Members
  • 1,836 posts

Posted 04 May 2012 - 05:57 AM

CSMs should be infuriated by the Tyranid invasion; the 'nids are eating the galaxy the CSMs yearn to conquer!



#4 boruta666

boruta666

    Member

  • Members
  • 238 posts

Posted 04 May 2012 - 06:03 AM

I wonder what would happen to tyranids when such giant number of warp tainted biomas would be eaten? Something more kinky that bloodangel/genestealer (u know ymgrlirilir or something strain) mix ?

LOL chaos tainted tyranids xD i hope certain GW writer will not read this…



#5 TheHeavenlyLily

TheHeavenlyLily

    Member

  • Members
  • 84 posts

Posted 04 May 2012 - 06:37 AM

 Only three things in all of GW are immune to chaos taint and two of them come from gestalt wills the third is the Necrons. The other two are Orks because of the WAAAHGHH!!! and the Tyranid because of the Hive Mind. If it was a full blown daemon world? The Tyranids don't travel through the Warp so that planet would have to be in the Material universe. And depending on how in depth you get with the fluff the Shadow of the Warp pushes the warp away. When the Tyranids went to consume a world and the population jumped into the Warp their vessels were blown way of course because of the Hive Mind's shadow.

The world needs to have sufficient bio-mass for the Tyranids to spawn warrior organisms to consume the planet. So there would still need to be enough organic material on the world. But Chaos Marines could be in the midst of a raid or just started to taint a world when the Tyranids show up in system. In away the Daemons and Tyranids are opposite sides of the same coin. The Daemons are the purest expression of the soul. The Tyranids are the purest expression of the body.



#6 boruta666

boruta666

    Member

  • Members
  • 238 posts

Posted 04 May 2012 - 12:36 PM

in very old fluff genestealers could join chaos :P

also zoanthrope (or something with similar name, i dont own bug codex) , is using warp energies, using warp means ability to be screwed by deamons.

also certain jerktastic smurf psyker was able to say "hello" to hive mind through warp means.

also kinky bloodangels wannabe genestealers created from spoiled pool of biosoup, so unhealthy that hive mind dont want to eat them. 

and dont forget that flesh and mind can be tainted, corrupted and possessed. 



#7 TheHeavenlyLily

TheHeavenlyLily

    Member

  • Members
  • 84 posts

Posted 04 May 2012 - 03:04 PM

The Zoanthrope draws on the will of the Hive Mind not through the warp like a lesser psyker would. I own all 3 editions of the Tyranid Codex. They do not fall to Chaos and any psykers they have draw the power from the Hive mind. They can burn out but its because they catch to much of the Hive Mind's power when doing so. Also Zoanthropes are not intelligent all of their mental prowess goes into throwing psychic blasts at their enemies to think on their own. Only a few creatures are truly independent but so much of the Hive Mind is invested into them that nothing else can find purchase.

The Imperial Psyker that touched the Hive Mind? Went utterly insane. In the 5e Codex an Inquisitor seeded an Ork Empire with the simplest of the Tyranid organisms which drew a splinter fleet of Leviathan. And it has only made the Hive Mind stronger. Ork Weird Boyz don't draw their power from the Warp either but the WAAAGGGHH!



#8 Gurkhal

Gurkhal

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,026 posts

Posted 04 May 2012 - 06:21 PM

I would think that in the case of mortal followers of Chaos it will be kind of the normal war between Tyranids and their lunch, except that the lunch uses different tricks to not get eaten.

If its daemons then either the Tyranid Shadow will push away the daemons from the world OR the daemons manages to maintain their grasp and then its goodbye Tyranids since daemons are numberless as well and won't produce any biomass for the Tyranids to eat and the daemons can keep coming back even longer than the Tyranids can. Add to it that the daemons are pretty strong fighters and the Hive Mind will have a fight like no other on its hands.



#9 Blood Pact

Blood Pact

    Member

  • Members
  • 841 posts

Posted 04 May 2012 - 07:44 PM

It's hard to say actually.

If the Shadow in the Warp isn't just a really big pariah field, repelling all psychic energy, then It's mind-destroying cacaphony of billions of creatues in virtually constant telepathic contact.

I'd certainly imagine that the daemons would be affected by it, but I'm not sure they'd be entirely banished.



#10 SomVone

SomVone

    Member

  • Members
  • 286 posts

Posted 05 May 2012 - 01:54 PM

 Well, it's unlikely for a hive fleet to become tainted, but there is almost nothing stopping the more intelligent Tyranid creatures (Tyrants, Warriors, Lictors, Genestealers, and Zoanthropes) from becoming tainted if separated from the hive mind for some time. The Tyranids have no special immunity to the powers of the warp, Gift of Chaos and Bolt of Change are going to affect them as normal. The Hive mind's single minded need to consume as opposed to more earthly wants makes it extrememly hard for chaos to get its hooks into. Likewise for the orks, the WAAAGH field doesn't provide the orks with resistance to chaos, their lack or normal psykers and the fact that they live in a society without strife makes them hard to turn as well. Most of the necrons are mindless, or lack the emotional drives which the Ruinious Powers like to use.



#11 TheHeavenlyLily

TheHeavenlyLily

    Member

  • Members
  • 84 posts

Posted 05 May 2012 - 02:34 PM

SomVone said:

 Well, it's unlikely for a hive fleet to become tainted, but there is almost nothing stopping the more intelligent Tyranid creatures (Tyrants, Warriors, Lictors, Genestealers, and Zoanthropes) from becoming tainted if separated from the hive mind for some time. The Tyranids have no special immunity to the powers of the warp, Gift of Chaos and Bolt of Change are going to affect them as normal. The Hive mind's single minded need to consume as opposed to more earthly wants makes it extrememly hard for chaos to get its hooks into. Likewise for the orks, the WAAAGH field doesn't provide the orks with resistance to chaos, their lack or normal psykers and the fact that they live in a society without strife makes them hard to turn as well. Most of the necrons are mindless, or lack the emotional drives which the Ruinious Powers like to use.

 

Synapse creatures cannot be cut off from the Hive Mind. That's why they are synapse creatures to relay the will of the Hive Mind to lesser broods. The gestalt will of the Hive Mind makes them immune to the twisting power of chaos. Nor do the Hive Ships travel through the Warp those creatures are umm Narwals I think is the proper spelling which pulls the entire fleet forward by locking onto the gravity of distant galaxies/stars/planets to get the rest of the Hive close.

The Orks use the WAAAAGGGHH! which is the combine mental strength of the entire orkoid culture. Thats why their gunz work. Thats why "Red is Fasta" because the will of the Orks says it will work so it will work. Much like the Tyranids they are immune to the Warp. No Ork has fallen to chaos because they cannot fall to Chaos. They were created by the Old Ones to fight not only the Necrontyr but also used to combat Chaos.

For the Necrons not having a soul prevents them from falling to Chaos. I am not sure they ever had Psykers or access to the Empyrean even before the War in Heaven which is one of the reasons that conflict started.



#12 SomVone

SomVone

    Member

  • Members
  • 286 posts

Posted 06 May 2012 - 07:20 AM

TheHeavenlyLily said:

SomVone said:

 

 Well, it's unlikely for a hive fleet to become tainted, but there is almost nothing stopping the more intelligent Tyranid creatures (Tyrants, Warriors, Lictors, Genestealers, and Zoanthropes) from becoming tainted if separated from the hive mind for some time. The Tyranids have no special immunity to the powers of the warp, Gift of Chaos and Bolt of Change are going to affect them as normal. The Hive mind's single minded need to consume as opposed to more earthly wants makes it extrememly hard for chaos to get its hooks into. Likewise for the orks, the WAAAGH field doesn't provide the orks with resistance to chaos, their lack or normal psykers and the fact that they live in a society without strife makes them hard to turn as well. Most of the necrons are mindless, or lack the emotional drives which the Ruinious Powers like to use.

 

 

 

Synapse creatures cannot be cut off from the Hive Mind. That's why they are synapse creatures to relay the will of the Hive Mind to lesser broods. The gestalt will of the Hive Mind makes them immune to the twisting power of chaos. Nor do the Hive Ships travel through the Warp those creatures are umm Narwals I think is the proper spelling which pulls the entire fleet forward by locking onto the gravity of distant galaxies/stars/planets to get the rest of the Hive close.

The Orks use the WAAAAGGGHH! which is the combine mental strength of the entire orkoid culture. Thats why their gunz work. Thats why "Red is Fasta" because the will of the Orks says it will work so it will work. Much like the Tyranids they are immune to the Warp. No Ork has fallen to chaos because they cannot fall to Chaos. They were created by the Old Ones to fight not only the Necrontyr but also used to combat Chaos.

For the Necrons not having a soul prevents them from falling to Chaos. I am not sure they ever had Psykers or access to the Empyrean even before the War in Heaven which is one of the reasons that conflict started.

Synapse creatures can be cut off from the hive mind if they are left behind on a planet. It doesn't happen often, as the Tyranids only leave troops behind if they are exterminated in space, but it has happened. Whether hive ships can be cut off is unclear, though unlikely, they seem to generate the Hive Mind.

Orks have fallen to Chaos: As seen here from Codex: Daemonhunters.

The effect of the WAAAGH field is greatly overstated by the fanbase. Armageddon Ork hunters are fully capable of using captured ork small arms. Space marines have captured and used ork Tellyportas. The point is, the WAAAGH field is largely related to ork morale, their weapons and machines still work without it. It helps, being something like psychic lubricant than parts replacement.

Not having a soul is little defense against the Forces of Chaos, it just makes one less interesting to daemons. Its true that the Necrons are pretty un-involved with chaos.



#13 Adeptus-B

Adeptus-B

    Part-Time Super Villian

  • Members
  • 1,836 posts

Posted 06 May 2012 - 10:19 AM

GW has flip-flopped a few times on the corruptability of Orks. Back in the day, there used to be a Khornate Ork troop type. Then that was dumped, replaced by Orks devotion to Mork and Ork (whose place in the 40K cosmology has never been properly defined- are they Old Ones? Misinterpretations of Chaos Powers?). Then Codex: Daemonhunters came out with official rules for corrupting any and all of the 40K races. Now it looks like we are back to Orks being incorruptable again…



#14 coolzyg

coolzyg

    Member

  • Members
  • 122 posts

Posted 06 May 2012 - 11:15 AM

Adeptus-B said:

GW has flip-flopped a few times on the corruptability of Orks. Back in the day, there used to be a Khornate Ork troop type. Then that was dumped, replaced by Orks devotion to Mork and Ork (whose place in the 40K cosmology has never been properly defined- are they Old Ones? Misinterpretations of Chaos Powers?). Then Codex: Daemonhunters came out with official rules for corrupting any and all of the 40K races. Now it looks like we are back to Orks being incorruptable again…

You ment Gork&Mork?

 

About left behind Hive Ship. I've listened to short story Heart of Rage, where group of Blood Angels boards Hive Ship and… I won't spoil :).



#15 professor_kylan

professor_kylan

    Member

  • Members
  • 405 posts

Posted 06 May 2012 - 03:26 PM

 

It may help to think of the Shadow in the Warp as a very unusual and highly localised Warp Storm. Like Warp Storms, it's an event in the Immaterium that prevents astropathic communication, makes it harder for Daemons to spend too much time in the area (this may draw contention - as a metaphore within a mentaphor, imagine a seagul. It's a creature of the air, living and flying through it with complete freedom. When a storm draws near, it flees it. Same with Daemons in the warp afaik), and blankets psychic powers.

The sheer size, complexity and wrongness of the Shadow is what grants it an immunity to corruption. The flesh though? The flesh is corrupted as easily as anything else. The first termagaunts to look upon the Lord of Change die in horrific, non-euclidian ways. The Lictor that eats the Sorcerors mind and finds itself filled with the forbidden lore they knew will change and twist as that unknowable knowledge shatters the fragile lie that mortals call flesh. Canonically, entire Bio-ships have been infected with theObliterator virus. But the Hive doesn't care. Some of the flesh may be cancerous - it gets cut free and the Hive continues. 

It does lead to teh interesting idea though, that there may be planets that a Hive Fleet consumes, but are covered in Tyranid and local corpses, deemed too tainted to be worth reclaiming by the Hive. Shattered world, barely an atmosphere left, potential undead chaos zombies wandering around the place… now THERE is a Deathwatch Mission waiting to happen! 



#16 Pallomides

Pallomides

    Member

  • Members
  • 52 posts

Posted 06 May 2012 - 08:08 PM

OK so we have discussed pure Demons and Orcs, but what about the Stigmarius forces or  CSM such as the Word Bearers? Imagine Ultramarines slogging it out with the Word Bearers and the Nids arrive.



#17 Adeptus-B

Adeptus-B

    Part-Time Super Villian

  • Members
  • 1,836 posts

Posted 07 May 2012 - 08:56 AM

coolzyg said:

You ment Gork&Mork?

D'oh! I just rented the second season of Mork & Mindy



#18 bogi_khaosa

bogi_khaosa

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,064 posts

Posted 07 May 2012 - 06:18 PM

It seems to me that the Orks' psychic field was developed as a rationalization explaining why a species with such a ramshackle aesthetic and little to no ability to plan could have functioning high technology. It was not intended to turn Orks into green-skinned god who can do anything they want if they believe in it enough.



#19 Pallomides

Pallomides

    Member

  • Members
  • 52 posts

Posted 07 May 2012 - 09:57 PM

Taken from the Lexicanum:

Uthan the Perverse, a controversial Eldar philosopher:

The Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn? And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude.

 

But I was actually trying to talk about Chaos Space Marines or  Blood Pact versus Tyranids. I recon this thread is suffering a Waaagh



#20 qcipher

qcipher

    Member

  • Members
  • 98 posts

Posted 20 May 2012 - 10:16 AM

I used the idea that Chaos and The Hive are natural enemies in my campaign.  It seems logical to me; they both have the same prey, the Hive will eat just about anything that gets in its way, and the Shadow of the Warp has a deleterious affect on Warp users.  The main thing might be that Chaos would prefer not to fight an enemy they literally get nothing from (no souls, no slaves, no tech etc).

 

I set the campain on Castobel (before the recent official source material books were released) and used Inquisitor Quist (Quint?) as the one with the theory.  She believed that the self-destruction of one of the Hives on Castobel was not suicide, but rather a mass sacrifice from Chaos cultists or even Traitor Legions as a strike against the Hive.  She had evidence that a ship aligned with the Stigmartus had gotten through the blockades around Castobel, 48 hours later the Hive City exploded when its reactors were purposefully overloaded.  The majority believe it was an act of suicide, but she believed that the chaos forces caused it.  For my purposes the explosion was more of a neutron bomb, leaving most of the city intact.

 

The PCs were dropped in Castobel and charged with investigating and setting up a base for the Inquisitor.  They walked right into a war between genestealer cults and chaos cults, both being whipped into frenzies by their respective patrons.  Once the base was set they investigated various leads, put out some fires (a small chaos space marine warband) and verified that it was indeed an attack from chaos that destroyed the city, a massive sacrifice with the power to be used to summon a Daemon Prince and his armies.  They believed a chaos sorceror and a newly made chaos space marine named Guillaume were the orchestrators, with the newbie CSM to be possessed by the Daemon Prince.

 

The PCs decided to try and lure the tyranids into the ruined city, the Inquisitor's Acolytes were already looking for a Psyker that had touched the mind of the Hive and was still on the loose.  They would capture him and since he had an effect like a Pied Piper to the Tyranids, would lure them right into a dead city where the radiation would kill plenty before too long.  The PCs were going to enter the city and see if they could stop the ritual, and if they couldn't they'd at least make certain that the daemons and tyranids fought.

 

Daemons were already popping up in the city, but they found where the ritual was being held, the sorceror though was behind a field and couldn't be hit, while the Acolytes were flying a damaged ship into the city and leading a whole mess of tyranids with them; they had the psyker.

 

When it seemed that the ritual was about to go off suddenly the would-be sacrifice pulls his gun on the sorceror.

"Guillaume?  What are you doing?  You have to enter the circle!" the sorceror said.

"I am not Guillaume.  My name is Alpharius." he said before blowing the sorceror's head off and then fleeing the scene.  (I loved that part in Tales of Heresy on the Worldeater ship when two Alpha Legions revealed themselves)

 

From there, without a sacrifice, portals to the Warp opened and Daemons poured in, just as the Tyranids arrived en masse.  The PCs thought it best to chase after the fleeing Alpha Legion and let those two groups sort it out.  They chased after the fleeing CSM, who was then killed by a Zoanthrope and some of the Tyranid Warriors.  The PCs killed them and made it out of the city.  When they contacted the Inquisitor they found that the last remnants of the Genestealers and their cults had attacked their base, and only she, some of her Acolytes and a few local guards survived.  While she was speaking, two of those suddenly turned on her saying they too were Alpharius, and killed her.

 

The PCs were the heroes of Castobel…and quite confused at the end of it all.  But they liked the adventure.  I had a good time running it also.

 

 

 

 






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS