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Opposed checks, how you feel it after these years?


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#1 Yepesnopes

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 06:37 PM

Hello,

At the beginning of the release of WFRP 3rd ed there were quite a lot of discussions about the mathematics of the opposed checks, which at first glance they seem very badly done (at least to me). See the following table (the rows represent the stat of the active side and the columns the stat of the pasive side).

vs   1          2        3         4         5        6          7        8         9       10
1   12.5     3.1      3.1     3.1      3.1     3.1      3.1     3.1      3.1     3.1
2    75      25      14.1     7.8      7.8     7.8      7.8     7.8      7.8     7.8
3    87.5   59.4   38.3   23.8   23.8   14.5   14.5   14.5   14.5   14.5
4    93.8   93.8   71.9   51.2   34.7   34.7   34.7   22.7   22.7   22.7
5    96.9   96.9   81.3   81.3   62.7   45.7   45.7   45.7   45.7   31.8
6    98.4   98.4   98.4   87.9   87.9   72.4   56.1   56.1   56.1   56.1
7    99.2   99.2   99.2   92.4   92.4   92.4   80.1   65.4   65.4   65.4
8    99.6   99.6   99.6   99.6   95.3   95.3   95.3   86      73.4   73.4
9    99.8   99.8   99.8   99.8   97.2   97.2   97.2   97.2   90.4    80
10  99.9   99.9   99.9   99.9   99.9   98.3   98.3   98.3   98.3   93.5

And in this stable the comparison shows only stat vs stat, there are no training or fortune dice involved, neither stats converted to stance dice (which still boost further the numbers).
 

Many people decided to house rule in one way or the other the opposed checks, myself included, looking for more "fair" probabilities. I am still house ruling opposed checks following the idea of some one in the forums (sorry I can't remember the name neither find the post) where the difficulty of the check is defined by the passive character as #challenge dice = Characteristic /2 and the 0.5 results are converted into 1 misfortune die.

After some time, I am reconsidering to go back to the original system, not because I don't like mine, but more because opposed checks are an important part of the game, and I am afraid that house ruling this rule my incur in some unbalancing of the game in other aspects of it which may pass unnoticed.

I would like to know, what are you doing guys, are you (still) house ruling opposed checks? did you stay /went back to the original system proposed by the editors? which are the pros and cons of the rules you are using (either house rules or original rules)?


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#2 nephtys

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:47 PM

we use the opposed check rules by the designers and i must say these are the most challenging of them all, if only for their inherent difficulty. but i like that. when my players want to wrestle down a dwarf slayer they will get at least 3 challenge dice from his enormous strength rating.

nevertheless, you wouldn't think how many times i had them do borderline impossible opposed checks and they would pass them with training, fortune points ans stance adjustment.

i'd recommend go back and try it again, they make a real challenge and bring loads of tension into rolls!



#3 valvorik

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 03:39 AM

The checks are "success tilted" but I'm okay with that as long as I remember as GM to also invoke them for Monsters etc., that the 6 Str monster trying to pick up and throw 6 Str PC also has a really good chance of doing it.

The game overall being tilted to "Success with side effects etc. " rather than keeping "odds same as you get better and opposition gets better" is something I like.






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