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Corax's Ingenuity vs. Rapid Reaction

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#1 Nathiel



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Posted 29 April 2012 - 04:01 AM

Can Rapid Reaction be used by the enemy to not be counted as surprised when the power Corax's Ingenuity is used?

#2 herichimo



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Posted 01 May 2012 - 07:13 AM

I'm pretty sure it could.

Corax's ingenuity essentially guarantees a suprise encounter correct?

Rapid reaction allows a character 'who is suprised' to take an agility test to act normally.

So I don't see any confliction. A character becomes suprised via corax's ingenuity then, because it's suprised, is allowed to use his rapid reaction talent.

#3 Nathiel



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Posted 01 May 2012 - 11:01 AM

CI allows all battle brothers in range to get a free half action for which all enemies count as surprised. 

Rapid reaction lets you 'act normally' when surprised or ambushed with a successful Ag test. 

The 'Combat Circumstances' section lists a bonus (+30) for 'Unaware Targets' (p249) and it says this usualy happens when surprised. The Surprise section (p.235) states they can only stand there, then lists a bonus to attack them (+30) but does not specificaly state this is the 'Unaware Target' bonus. This matters because you cannot dodge an attack that you are not aware of.  (Though there is no such restrictionon parry, kinda weird huh?)

So I guess the big question is wether RR completely negates the surprise or simply lets you take actions in the surprise round at the beginning of a combat where you are surprised.

#4 SomVone



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Posted 01 May 2012 - 05:05 PM

 Negates Surprise IIRC.

#5 Nathiel



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Posted 02 May 2012 - 12:13 PM

I love when I get quick responses from these guys :)

Rule Questions:
When surprised, do you count as an 'Unaware Target?'


Can a person use reactions when surprised?

Does the talent Rapid Reaction completely negate the effects of being surprised or simply let you take actions in the first round of combat even though you are surprised?

What does Rapid Reaction do in the context of the Raven Guard psychic power Corax's Ingenuity?

Thank You

To answer your questions,

The rules for "Unaware Targets" on page 249 of the Deathwatch Core Rulebook, states that Characters that are Surprised are, in fact, Unaware Targets.

As stated under "Surprise" on page 235 of the Deathwatch Core Rulebook, Surprised characters "can do nothing except stand dumbfounded." This would indicate that they cannot use Reaction Actions. As this is not clearly stated in rules text, look to an upcoming errata for clarification.

The Rapid Reaction Talent allows a character to take an Agility Test to remove the Unaware Target condition from himself during the first round of combat. Look to an upcoming errata for clarification.

As the Corax's Ingenuity Psychic Power inflicts the Surprised (and thus the Unaware Target) condition on the Kill-team's enemies for the duration of the immediate Half-Actions taken by the Librarian's Battle-Brothers, any enemies that possess the Rapid Reaction Talent may make the appropriate Agility Test to not count as being Surprised.

Thank you for your questions,



I like how this actualy removes any posibility of confusion (except for how long untill the next errata.)

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