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#1 flyndad

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 07:24 AM

Having studied the books from the core set for many weeks and having re-read them 4 or 5 times, I still have a few questions

 

1. When creating a wizard or priest character, the career card states that his abilities/skills are spellcasting and conjuring ( or whatever it is actually called, where the wizard gathers power) My question is do creation points have to be spent to "obtain" these "advanced" skills? or do they already "have" them? If you have to spend points to obtain the "advanced" skill then it is impossible to invest 0 in the skills section as you would not have access to spellcasting. So,.. if this is correct, that a wizard already has spellcasting, then a wizard can choose to invest creation points in "training" in spellcasting, Yes ??

 

2. The only thing that REALLY differentiates Long term care and Rest and Recovery is the presence of a trained Medicine person Yes/No ??

 

3. When do the recharge tokens ACTUALLY get placed on the card, at the end of the turn or immediqately after the card is used? If right after the card is used then you could use the card, put the tokens on it, then at the end of turn phase remove on of the tokens from it, right ?? 

 

4. I assume that no matter what the "check" is you ALWAYS include your current stance in the dice pool created?? Ie,.. discipline check, or first aid check etc…

 

5.Can a knocked out person do their own resiliance check? or does someone else need to assist in a first aid check? 

 

and MANY more,….   



#2 Ceodryn

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 08:43 AM

The core set books are good to start with, but I found them very confusing myself. The Player’sGuide is much clearer.


1. When creating a wizard or priest character, the career card states that his abilities/skills are spellcasting and conjuring ( or whatever it is actually called, where the wizard gathers power) My question is do creation points have to be spent to "obtain" these "advanced" skills? or do they already "have" them? If you have to spend points to obtain the "advanced" skill then it is impossible to invest 0 in the skills section as you would not have access to spellcasting. So,.. if this is correct, that a wizard already has spellcasting, then a wizard can choose to invest creation points in "training" in spellcasting, Yes ??


[Player’s Guide] [Apprentice wizards automatically acquire the advanced skills Channelling and Spellcraft for free during character creation. Wizard characters also begin play with several additional basic action cards, collectively referred to as “Petty Magic.” Add the Channel Power , Magic Dart , Cantrip , and Counterspell action cards to your action deck if you create a new wizard character. A character who later transitions into a wizard career receives no such free training and will have to learn to use his powers the hard way.]

Yes, apprentice wizards can train Spellcraft during character creation, since they acquire it for free.

[Player’s Guide] [Starting priest characters—called Initiates—do not receive the same free bonuses that wizards do. Not all priests are capable of invoking blessings, and doing so is not the essence of what priesthood is about; therefore Initiates do not acquire Piety or Invocation for free during character creation. However, a newly created Initiate character who begins the game with Piety acquired or trained (by spending creation points) will also add the Curry Favour action card to his action deck. An Initiate who begins the game with Invocation acquired or trained (by spending creation points) adds Minor Blessing, Minor Ward, and Blessing of Health to his action deck. Otherwise, the character must invest advances to acquire these skills and actions later on in his career.]

2. The only thing that REALLY differentiates Long term care and Rest and Recovery is the presence of a trained Medicine person Yes/No ??

No.
The Rest&Recovery rules are for every full night’s rest. First Aid or Medicine can both be used to facilitate that full night rest.
The Long Term Care rules are for when a PC is comfortably resting in the proper environment, and has access to the skilled ministrations of another. […] For each day of care a character receives under such conditions the rules applies. That means the PC must spend his entire day resting. The “skilled ministrations of another” must be a person with Medicine. First Aid doesn’t apply.

3. When do the recharge tokens ACTUALLY get placed on the card, at the end of the turn or immediqately after the card is used? If right after the card is used then you could use the card, put the tokens on it, then at the end of turn phase remove on of the tokens from it, right ??

Immediately after the card is used IF the action is successful. Yes, one token is removed at the end of the PC turn, right after he may have added tokens.

4. I assume that no matter what the "check" is you ALWAYS include your current stance in the dice pool created?? Ie,.. discipline check, or first aid check etc…

Yes, except for Initiative, which is a “no stance check”.

5.Can a knocked out person do their own resiliance check? or does someone else need to assist in a first aid check?

I am assuming you are asking about the resilience check to recover fatigue, which can be done in a Rally Step. Then, yes the PC can do that check, and if he succeeds and his total # of fatigue points becomes equal or less than 2x To, the PC wakes up.

Cheers
Ceodryn

 



#3 dvang

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 12:04 PM

Ceodryn is correct on everything except #4, which I will clarify.

The thought is correct. Initiative generally only uses characteristic dice.  This is because, though, generally, PCs start each and every combat in neutral stance.

However, should the GM allow a PC to start combat in a stance (other than neutral), the PC would then be required to convert characteristic dice to stance dice like they do for everything else.  So, just to make it clear. Initiative works exactly like everything else. Yes, if a PC is in a non-neutral stance then they MUST convert a number of characteristic dice to stance dice. 



#4 Bolluxx

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 08:32 AM

Has anybody an explanation why priests / initiates get this disadvantage when it comes to working wonders (compared with wizards) ?

 

Somehow I feel a bit betrayed with my Sigmar-priest…



#5 Ralzar

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 08:52 AM

Bolluxx said:

 

Has anybody an explanation why priests / initiates get this disadvantage when it comes to working wonders (compared with wizards) ?

 

Somehow I feel a bit betrayed with my Sigmar-priest…

 

 

 

Because a priest does not have to be a person who can throw around miracles. While a wizard is pretty much defined by being able to throw around spells. So you have the oppertunity to unlock the ability to use invocations, but its not inherent to being an initiate.



#6 Yepesnopes

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 09:31 AM

Bolluxx said:

Has anybody an explanation why priests / initiates get this disadvantage when it comes to working wonders (compared with wizards) ?

 

Somehow I feel a bit betrayed with my Sigmar-priest…

Don't complain! You can wear any armour without penalization and you do not suffer from miscasts.


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#7 dvang

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 11:50 AM

Yes, what Ralzar and Yepesnopes both said and the primary reasons.  Priests do not necessarily have the ability (especially at low ranks) to call directly for miracles, unlike wizards who are identified and trained specifically because they have the ability to manipulate the winds of magic.

As well, priests have additional abilities, such as being able to wear armor without penalty, and their magic is safer to use than wizards', etc.

Look at it this way. In 1e and 2e, priests couldn't cast even the simplest of spells until second rank. At least in 3e they can in the first rank, it just takes a few extra creation points (or XP) to do so. It's a huge improvement, IMO.



#8 flyndad

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 06:54 AM

Hey,.. Thanks guys. Your answers really helped.

I have found the Core rule books VERY difficult to figure out. It took me FOREVER to find the level of attunement for a starting charter. It is in a place that makes NO sense whatsoever. I had several questions regarding some of the action card rules as well, but, don't happen to have them in front of me.

I think two things about this game: 1. BEST roleplay game I have ever played,…. 2. WORST rulebooks EVER written explaining the rules. FF should do a TOTAL re-write of the chapters involving the how-to's and make them available on-line. WHAT,..!?! people might not buy the rulebooks then ?!?,.. Well TOUGH FF,… Should have thought of that before releasing such an terrible explaination.  I find it VERY hard to believe that ANYBODY ACTUALLY read the thing before it went to press?!?  I can't tell you how many times I would be reading, and they would talk about a certain something being done, and then NO explaination of HOW to do it !!!  I have read the books from cover to cover MANY times. I am NOT an idiot. and I still have several questions,…    Brilliant, creative, innovative, ground breaking Roleplay game. My hat is off to you!   Rulebooks,..??,….  FAIL! 



#9 Ceodryn

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 02:28 AM

Flyndad,

I agree with you regarding the poor organization of the Core Set books. If you have the opportunity, pick up the Player's Guide as an online PDF on DriveThruRPG.com. It's really useful as a rule reference. Use a good PDF reader with it, like Foxit.

Cheers

Ceodryn



#10 Ralzar

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 07:56 AM

flyndad, most people agree with you that the rulebooks are horribly written. Therefore, several people have made referance sheets that are MUCH easier to use for looking up rules during play.

www.gitzmansgallery.com has several good ones. I have a printed out version of the "Referance Guide" that I'm consulting more than the books during play.

For a good summation of all rules, Universal Head made an GREAT pdf. However, FFG asked him to take it down, so it's no longer available there. It might still be possible to google though. It's a bit out of date now, but for a condensed version of the character creation rules; it's the best I've seen.



#11 Johannes_Tippmeister

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 09:27 PM

Ralzar said:

For a good summation of all rules, Universal Head made an GREAT pdf. However, FFG asked him to take it down, so it's no longer available there. It might still be possible to google though. It's a bit out of date now, but for a condensed version of the character creation rules; it's the best I've seen.

How odd. Did they provide any reason why they'd shut down such a useful player help that they themselves do not provide? Loss of revenue does not apply, after all. In any case, how was the .pdf called again? I've downloaded it once-upon-a-time, I know that, but I can't find the file in all that mess here.



#12 Ralzar

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 10:44 PM

Johannes_Tippmeister said:

 

 

How odd. Did they provide any reason why they'd shut down such a useful player help that they themselves do not provide? Loss of revenue does not apply, after all.

 

I can't remember now, but there was a thread about it where the guy from UH chimed in, and I remember finding the explenation quite reasonable. Even though I can't remember what the explenation was anymore :P

It's still quite easily available through google though. It's still the PDF I go to when I need to quickly check some rules and don't have the rulebooks in front of me. I do really wish FFG could take a look at it and make something similar themselves. Since UH made the summary back when WFRP had just launched, it doesn't include rules from the later expansions.



#13 Johannes_Tippmeister

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 01:01 AM

Thanks, I found it using my google-fu. I'm glad, I would have hated to lose this one.

On a related note, they should pipe down with the cease and desist craze. There's a massive difference difference between the labor of love that the fan base puts up in support of a system and a commercial company trying to make profit off your IP. If you know what's good for your margins, you let the fans support your IP on the internet for free. And the Warhammer fan base is *fanatic*. We love the game world to pieces and it would be heresy to inhibit that.



#14 flyndad

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 07:23 AM

Thanks for all the response guys,…  As far as gitzmann's stuff goes, I have downloaded ALL of it,.. AMAZING stuff and I still can't get over the amazing amount of work he has put into this game. His help and other items have been a blessing. FF should send him a check RIGHT NOW for his ability to keep people in this game and not abandon it due to the rulebooks.   As far as the rulebooks,.. I know I am just whinning,.. but I just can't help it,.. it bothers me to no end that a company with the resources that FF has can't take the "time" to have their finished product in someones office, BEFORE it went to mass printing, and simply say, "hey you, have you ever heard of this game before?,.. NO?,.  here, take all this stuff, read all of it and tell me if it makes sense to you,.. ohh, and we will give ya $500 to boot! ".  I think ya know what I mean, and that was an over the top example, but the point is still the same. I find it very difficult to swallow. SOMEONE had to be responsible for this. It is even a bigger pill to swallow knowing that FF HAD to know they had a VERY different, innovative way to play an RPG. You would think extra. super, duper, special, attention would have been paid tosuch a  MAJOR aspect of the game, that being the EXPLANATION OF HOW TO PLAY IT !! 

 

OK,.. rant over,.. and I will NEVER mention the rulebooks again,…  so,.. where can I find pre-painted ungor minis. The campaign that came with the core set calls for about 6 of them I think, and the core set comes with,… umm,… well,….. NONE !!!!!  and I DO NOT like painting minis. I have tried it and was VERY good, but I just didn't enjoy it and I REALLY don't feel like paying someone $100 to paint 8 ungor for me,.. I KNOW !!!!  get GW to come out with an entire line of PRE-PAINTED minis of their ENTIRE beastiary!!,.. Let those that enjoy painting them, paint them, and the hand painted ones are MUCH nicer than the pre-painted ones BUT I wonder how many folks would still be playing WH Fantasy Battles if the price to have a color army didn't cost a mortgage payment! Make them about the same price as the Legenday Encounter series and for a couple hundred buck you could have a very respectable collection to GM with,.. 

CRAP!!  I did it again,.. ranting that is,….  

Let's end on a positive note,.. WHFRP3e ROCKS !!      



#15 Ralzar

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 08:45 PM

WFRP doesn't generally use minis, but cardboard cut-outs. There should be some in the Core box I think. Would be weird if there wasn't any beastmen in it.



#16 dvang

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 06:16 AM

There are several beastmen stand-ups in the core set. Additionally, there are more in the Monster Vault. There are also some other stand-ups that can proxy pretty well as beastmen.

Of course, you could certainly use actual miniatures instead of the stand-ups if you wanted. 



#17 BigKahuna

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 09:13 PM

Well if its any consolation flyndad I've been playing role-playing games since 1st edition basic first printing and I found this game very difficult to learn.  I don't think its because the rules or rule books are unclear but because this game introduces so many rather foreign concepts which often require a double take.  I think most people would be suprised or perhaps insulted if I where to say that in the last 20 years there hasn't been anything at all original in the role-playing world that did anything 1st and 2nd edition didnt already do. I can count on one hand the amount of times a company developed a role-playing system that wasn't effectively cloning what everyone else already did in a slightly altered way or otherwised suprised me somehow in their approach.  So when you read most role-playing games you can make a lot of assumptions using your experiance from past games and 95% of the time you will be correct. 

In WFRP the rules are different, the philosophy is different the mechanics very foreign in many regards, it introduces components unlike anything used in games before, abstractions seemingly merged with narration and tactical combat.  I found myself making assumption after assumption about the game only to discover that I was completetly off base when reading the rules.  The result is that I find myself looking to the books a lot more than other game systems and it takes a few session before things become familiar.  Im not sure how much different this game is from 1st and 2nd edition, so those games may in fact be equally suprising but to me WFRP was a big unexpected suprise.

 



#18 flyndad

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 07:22 AM

Umm,… NOT in MY core set,.. their was ONE ,.. Think it was a worgor,.. and that was IT !!!  NO ungor and no wargar,.. I think that's what they call him,.. the big daddy beastman,… NOPE,.. the only one in the core set that I revieved was one worgor,… and the campaign in the back of the book calls for 6 ungor and a few worgor and I think one wargar,…  so we used skaven and cultists and such,… REALLY stunk when ya think about it,.. nearly a hundred bucks for a game and not only does it not have 3d mini's but leaves out the ones' you need to run the included campaign,……  oh well,…. it's only money,… makes me wonder why Pathfinder has been gaining market share like crazy,… hmmm,.. they have COLOR  3D models of MOST if not all of their beastiary,… sure would be nice to see SOMEONE come out with a color 3d warhammer beastiary,…. 



#19 New Zombie

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 08:35 AM

flyndad said:

Umm,… NOT in MY core set,.. their was ONE ,.. Think it was a worgor,.. and that was IT !!!  NO ungor and no wargar,.. I think that's what they call him,.. the big daddy beastman,… NOPE,.. the only one in the core set that I revieved was one worgor,… and the campaign in the back of the book calls for 6 ungor and a few worgor and I think one wargar,…  so we used skaven and cultists and such,… REALLY stunk when ya think about it,.. nearly a hundred bucks for a game and not only does it not have 3d mini's but leaves out the ones' you need to run the included campaign,……  oh well,…. it's only money,… makes me wonder why Pathfinder has been gaining market share like crazy,… hmmm,.. they have COLOR  3D models of MOST if not all of their beastiary,… sure would be nice to see SOMEONE come out with a color 3d warhammer beastiary,…. 

weird. considering the stand ups come in a punch out board, there is not much room for variation.



#20 dvang

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 07:12 AM

flyndad said:

 

they have COLOR 3D models of MOST if not all of their beastiary,…sure would be nice to see SOMEONE come out with a color 3d warhammer beastiary,…. 

 

 

It's called Warhammer Fantasy Battles. You can find model blisters or box sets of every pretty much every creature you might run into in the Warhammer RPG.  Most can be customized too. Similarly, you can use other models, even D&D/Pathfinder for any ones that you might not typically find in WFB.

 






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