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Does Novo fix things?


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#1 Guest_Not In Sample_*

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 09:31 AM

I skipped out on buying Tann because I read a ton of reviews on many sites and the unamous opinion was that the game gets old quick and is not as cool as it looked. Now that Novo is out, for those of you that thought the same way, does it fix the game?



#2 The Sundance Kid

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 12:05 PM

This game got dull quick?

 

I never got that memo.

 

It depends what camp you are in. If you are over at BGG group of people love it another hate it. But if you are playing the same type of game over and over again anything gets boring. If you play different game modes it keeps things fresh, not to mention switching games or having a game rotation would not hurt.



#3 sepayne7l

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 12:22 PM

I agree with Sundance. Tannhauser has a ton of variability when you consider multiple maps, characters, character equipment packs and game modes.

My only disappointment was that the story mode really did not have much story. That has been fixed with the scenarios available for download both here and on BGG.

Tannhauser is an under-rated, over-criticized squad level combat boardgame.



#4 loki_tbc

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 01:21 PM

My biggest complaint is that since it is colour dependant, my buddy who is colour-blind has a hard time playing. (Though I can always B.S. him about what path he is on, but that is not as much fun as playing straight-up...)



#5 loki_tbc

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 01:21 PM

My biggest complaint is that since it is colour dependant, my buddy who is colour-blind has a hard time playing. (Though I can always B.S. him about what path he is on, but that is not as much fun as playing straight-up...)



#6 The Sundance Kid

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 02:43 PM

loki_tbc said:

My biggest complaint is that since it is colour dependant, my buddy who is colour-blind has a hard time playing. (Though I can always B.S. him about what path he is on, but that is not as much fun as playing straight-up...)

 

My friend asked me that question hoe does some one play if they are colored blind (his grandfather is) only way I can see getting around it is using numbers or letters but will require you to write on your board.



#7 Last_Crusader

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 07:16 AM

For my group .. the game looked good in a con demo. The concepts seemed solid. The components looked sweet. The pathfinding system was great compared to traditional miniatures games or other tile-based mini games. The character customization and scenarios seemed good and would offer a lot of replayability out of the box. So we bought the game.

We just felt the game severely lacked in playability.

The game comes down to die rolls .. WAY too much .. too many games come down to the initiative  .. or a lucky combat roll .. or a bad shock roll.  There really is not much strategy .. move and shoot and roll .. and pray you roll well and your opponent rolls poorly.

It has the same problem I had with MageKnight. The person going first and getting that first attack in is at a big advantage since a successful shot weakens your opponent before they can really attack back .. thus making their next attack that less likely to succeed.

It is a quick game .. but having characters die due to one good/bad roll before you can use them is annoying. You spend time going over and figuring out which weapon packs to use ... and the character dies in short order due to a bad shock roll. Weeeeee. Fun!

Throw in the brokenness of smoke grenades (at least how we've read/interpreted the rules on them) the game is just bleh.

Add in the fact that you have to constantly be referencing the token sheets to know what they do actually bogs the game down for us.

Okay .. I roll 6 dice .. no wait I have this weapon .. I roll an extra one .. okay .. I did 3 hits .. no wait .. I have this ability, so  I did one extra auto damage .. no wait .. I rolled a 10 so ........  you get the point.

Impressive concept .. good looking components .. the replayability may be there .. but for us it didn't matter .. we just didn't want to play much after a few times through after several games of  "If I win initiative I win .. if I lose initiative .. I lose". (usually this happened in the objective games).

 

 



#8 Chimaera

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 10:02 AM

 

 

 

The game comes down to die rolls .. WAY too much .. too many games come down to the initiative .. or a lucky combat roll .. or a bad shock roll. There really is not much strategy .. move and shoot and roll .. and pray you roll well and your opponent rolls poorly.

I have said it before & I am saying it again. The game really needs some cards like Zombies Last Night on Earth. This is fundamentally a dice game but the cards mix things up and going first or throwing high dice rolls doesn't mean you always defeat the opposing piece off the bat. TOY & FFG should really consider this mechanic going forward & it could fit in very easily.



#9 Guest_Not In Sample_*

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 11:09 AM

Last Crusader,

Have you played with Novo? Did it fix these issues for you?

Everyone else,

Based on what Last Crusader said does Novo fix those issues? The reason I am torn on this game is because, both the base game and Novo are like 60 -70 bucks. At least at me LRS they have both the base and expansion selling for about same price price. Since when are expansions just as expensive as the core game? 10 dollars less means that it must come with a ton to stuff and I hope at least half of that fixes the issues people had with the core product.

Thanks btw for answering my question.



#10 loki_tbc

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 01:35 PM

I like the game but think you would be better served saving the money and buying something else.

Upon further reflection, the longer I think about the original concept the less I like the expansion. The original concept was Union (good guys with tech) vs bad guys with Occult. The russians could have been very cool if they had stuck with the tesla concept, but throwing in the slavic gods stuff is just so far out of left field and makes so little sense that I find myself kicking my own butt for shelling out the cash for this....

 

(I could have gotten almost an expansion pack + the expansion board for Arkham Horror for the cost of this...)

 

 



#11 littlewars

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 03:48 PM

I don't believe  a "unanimous" opinion about Tannhauser exists. Like every other game, it is not for everyone.

I don't think anything is broken in the base game and Novgorod was not designed to fix anything. It adds a faction that has a different play style. If you don't like Tannhauser, Novgorod will not change that.

My only problem with Tannhauser is it plays best as a 2 player game. I've played it that way, but my group is usually 3 - 4 players, and we've had to find creative ways to accommodate that.

I 've never had a problem with games based on die rolls, though some do.  Many games that do not rely on random luck require only a few plays to "solve" the system and tend to get dull after that. Also, luck has a great sense of humor.

There are plenty of "strategic" ways to manipulate your rolls, so I don't buy that it only comes down to rolls. Got a problem with initiative? Get a pack that boosts it. Spend your precious VP to re-roll. Be proactive about it, that's why the options are there. On many turns, by using strategy, initiatve is not even an issue.

Token reference is a pain, I totally agree. After our first game I promptly printed out the Universal Head reference cards. This is the single most indispensable fan created resource there is for this game, bar none.

Is everyone done downloading that? Good!

As much as I like the inclusion of Tesla's technology, I love the slavic gods in Novgorod, it adds a whole new dimension. The game already had weird tech and the occult. Saying that they are incongruous to Tannhauser is like saying Thor has no place in a comic, to make an analogy.

Those vikings did get around you know, they even settled Novgorod. In Germany he's Thunor, in Russia he's Perun. At least employing slavic gods isn't totally stale.

The Matriarchy's symbol, in Novgorod, actually represents Perun. It was traditionally carved in the central beam of  houses in slavic countries to ward off lightning strikes. It ties in with Tesla's lightning experiments, and Rasputin's return to paganism. I like where they are going with this.



#12 The Sundance Kid

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 04:59 PM

Slavic gods gave you a bad taste but the idea of a soldier tainted by deamons and a guy playin' with voodoo does not?


Just does not sound right.


As for dice-fest yeah it is, but I do not get board of it because it is not the only game I play, and I do not play it over and over, it is one game of about 7 or8 in a rotation.


The only fixing I Novgorod has done for tannhauser is


New map

Brighter mansion map (detail is a bit more noticeable)


More characters and equipment

new scenarios

so basically it only fixed an old taste which I have been playing with for about a year.

Tannhauser is a great game, but the only way you know you will like it is if YOU play it, not based on my reviews or others. People told me Magic the gathering was a great game and I will like it. To sum it up the game defies logic. It both sucks and blows.

 

Basically if you are looking for tannhauser to be a main staple in your day to day games I might not suggest it, but if you have a gaming rotation it would be in the top.

 

Only downsides I see to the game

multiple players (as LW said) is difficult to get a nice flow

A bit more luck than most games, but using the tokens is a great way to change balance

Too few maps and characters, but this does not bother me as much as it should since Tannhauser does not get played everyday or even every week.



#13 loki_tbc

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 06:17 PM

The Sundance Kid said:

Slavic gods gave you a bad taste but the idea of a soldier tainted by deamons and a guy playin' with voodoo does not?

 

I can see what you mean, but to me there is something more plausible about sinister krauts harnessing occult powers to aid them in their quest for world domination. (probably because there was an actual effort on the part of the Nazi's to do that during WWII)

I flipped through the fluff and just couldn't figure out the point of raising a slavic God...

I think they might have been better served with nefarious greeks trying to harness the power of atlantis (which might be what daedulus is, i don't really know as I haven't done more than glance at the board)

In any case, to the OP, please do give it a go at your LGS (if you're in Florida, I'll gladly demo), but don't run out and buy the expansion until you have thouroughly enjoyed the base set.

 

 

 



#14 Guest_Not In Sample_*

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 03:10 AM

The Sundance Kid said:

Slavic gods gave you a bad taste but the idea of a soldier tainted by deamons and a guy playin' with voodoo does not?


Just does not sound right.


As for dice-fest yeah it is, but I do not get board of it because it is not the only game I play, and I do not play it over and over, it is one game of about 7 or8 in a rotation.


The only fixing I Novgorod has done for tannhauser is


New map

Brighter mansion map (detail is a bit more noticeable)


More characters and equipment

new scenarios

so basically it only fixed an old taste which I have been playing with for about a year.

Tannhauser is a great game, but the only way you know you will like it is if YOU play it, not based on my reviews or others. People told me Magic the gathering was a great game and I will like it. To sum it up the game defies logic. It both sucks and blows.

 

Basically if you are looking for tannhauser to be a main staple in your day to day games I might not suggest it, but if you have a gaming rotation it would be in the top.

 

Only downsides I see to the game

multiple players (as LW said) is difficult to get a nice flow

A bit more luck than most games, but using the tokens is a great way to change balance

Too few maps and characters, but this does not bother me as much as it should since Tannhauser does not get played everyday or even every week.

70 bucks is a lot for something to not be used frequently. Also Magic the gathering sucks and blows in your opinion, you make that sound like a fact...sorry. I also don't like Magic but not the game, I hate the majority of the competative players cockiness.

I think I will buy my second option to Tannhauser. The box set of Warhammer 40k. Its cheaper comes with a full rule book and has more minis.

Thanks for the answers. Sadly I don't just have 70 +60 for xpack to blow on a game that is only used sparringly.



#15 The Sundance Kid

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 09:21 AM

darkkami said:

.

 

 

70 bucks is a lot for something to not be used frequently. Also Magic the gathering sucks and blows in your opinion, you make that sound like a fact...sorry. I also don't like Magic but not the game, I hate the majority of the competative players cockiness.

Can please support evidence that I say as if it were a fact that magic sucks?


Of course it is my opinion. I know it. I said it, I never went about saying as if it were a fact. Or maybe it was just your opinion, an opinion believing that it was a fact which really had nothing to support or give evidence of a fact because it never had the intention of being so.

As for not buying Tannhauser I don't really care, it is not for everyone, playing a sing game constantly is not fun, not a single game out there I can play everyday for a week and still be entertained with it. I like variety. Tannhuaser does get a lot of play every month (about 8 plays per month) But I have also spent about 3 grand on Axis and Allies and play that about 8 times a month.

To me (notice I said to me so not a fact so I will no longer confuse you on that) I buy a game not so I can play it over and over and over but play it over a long period of time, I see my self play thing game 5,6 10 years down the road. Great replay value and have played Tannhauser several times a month for a year, that 60 bucks well spent, again in my opinion.

I think of it has my favorite dish, spaghetti and meatballs, LOVE it, but could not eat it every day I would get sick of it, I need variety same thing day in and day out get pretty old.

 



#16 The Sundance Kid

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 09:29 AM

loki_tbc said:

 

 

 

I can see what you mean, but to me there is something more plausible about sinister krauts harnessing occult powers to aid them in their quest for world domination. (probably because there was an actual effort on the part of the Nazi's to do that during WWII)

I flipped through the fluff and just couldn't figure out the point of raising a slavic God...

 

 

 

I think you pretty much answered your own question.

I think you should also really look into the rise of interest in Slavic paganism and Slavic mythology in the 1930s and 1940s in Russia, so the Tannhauser story does revolve around that (historically) So it does make sense.
 



#17 supervike

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 12:22 PM

The Sundance Kid said:


The only fixing I Novgorod has done for tannhauser is


New map

Brighter mansion map (detail is a bit more noticeable)

 

Does Novgorod come with the mansion map as well?  I sure hope so, that would be a great touch indeed.

 

 

BTW, I ordered my Novgorod expansion from the WAR STORE, and even with shipping, it was under 40 bucks.   Maybe shopping around is the way to go...

 

Should be here any day now....I'm excited!

 

 



#18 littlewars

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 01:32 PM

Yes, Novogrod has Ksiaz Castle on the back, Deadalus features the Crypt. Using the new Secret Door rules, you can play on two maps.



#19 supervike

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 12:25 PM

If FFG does anything right by me, it's the consistant production values!

 

I got my game today, and it's just gorgeously printed.  I'm just making my way through the rules (shocked by several spelling errors in the rulebook, though)

 

Anyhow, adding the mansion map to the backside is a wonderful touch. 






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