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Aircraft for the Axis and Allies►


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#1 Panzer soldier

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 05:08 PM

Does anyone have any idea when aircraft will be releasted for the Axis and Allies► May be Fantasy Flight could produce rules to let us scratch biuld them. There are tons of 1/48 scale WWII airplane models just waiting to enter the battlefield!



#2 Loophole Master

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 05:30 PM

No idea when the other factions will get aircraft, we only know that they WILL get aircraft in the not too distant future.

I for one hope they take their sweet time before giving the axis and allies their aircraft. Let the russians have exclusivity of it for a while, make it their exclusive flavor.

As for scratch-building our own aircraft, I believe once we get the full aircraft rules in the Operation Zverograd Campaign and see the stat cards for the russian choppers, we''ll have everything we need to come up with custom units.



#3 Algesan

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 03:59 AM

Well, they probably will keep them, since on the DT/DW scale, the only aircraft that would work are copters.  Even prop driven ground attack aircraft would be too fast and could be simulated by off board mechanics.  Even when the A&A do get theirs, they will still be hampered by troops and walkers that aren''t designed to be transported by air.



#4 mgentile7

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 11:16 AM

Algesan said:

Well, they probably will keep them, since on the DT/DW scale, the only aircraft that would work are copters.  Even prop driven ground attack aircraft would be too fast and could be simulated by off board mechanics.  Even when the A&A do get theirs, they will still be hampered by troops and walkers that aren''t designed to be transported by air.

I have several rules I have been toying with if interested. Send me a message at mgentile7@yahoo.com and we can compare notes if interested. Be sure to say your from the forums.



#5 Panzer soldier

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 07:08 PM

Flavor is one thing, an unbalanced tactical advantage is another.

As far as ground scale is concerned, I am sure we can work fixed wing aircraft in to Dust Tactics.

As far as Dust Warfare goes, the system does not have anything to do with realistic ground scale. So I don't see the issue here either.



#6 Major Mishap

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 07:49 PM

Panzer soldier said:

Flavor is one thing, an unbalanced tactical advantage is another.

As far as ground scale is concerned, I am sure we can work fixed wing aircraft in to Dust Tactics.

As far as Dust Warfare goes, the system does not have anything to do with realistic ground scale. So I don't see the issue here either.

I've had an ME262 buzzing my battlefields for months, no problem at all with the rules.



#7 Algesan

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 02:38 AM

Major Mishap said:

Panzer soldier said:

 

Flavor is one thing, an unbalanced tactical advantage is another.

As far as ground scale is concerned, I am sure we can work fixed wing aircraft in to Dust Tactics.

As far as Dust Warfare goes, the system does not have anything to do with realistic ground scale. So I don't see the issue here either.

 

 

I've had an ME262 buzzing my battlefields for months, no problem at all with the rules.

That is the issue, "buzzing".  By the time a fast mover like the 262 shows up and pulls the trigger to strafe/bomb, it is gone.  A four tile wide battle would be 12 movement squares wide.  At about 50m per movement square (pretty much the maximum scale, this gets worse if they are less than 50m per) that would be 600m. which would be 2-3 seconds of flight time to cross.  Remember that slowing down much made this relatively delicate aircraft much more vulnerable to fire.  Something "slow" like a P-47 would take 3-4 seconds to fly across the board the long way.

 

"Real" aircraft, be they prop or jet tend to act more like off board artillery that at the scale of Dust.



#8 superklaus

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 02:24 AM

Algesan said:

Major Mishap said:

 

Panzer soldier said:

 

Flavor is one thing, an unbalanced tactical advantage is another.

As far as ground scale is concerned, I am sure we can work fixed wing aircraft in to Dust Tactics.

As far as Dust Warfare goes, the system does not have anything to do with realistic ground scale. So I don't see the issue here either.

 

 

I've had an ME262 buzzing my battlefields for months, no problem at all with the rules.

 

 

That is the issue, "buzzing".  By the time a fast mover like the 262 shows up and pulls the trigger to strafe/bomb, it is gone.  A four tile wide battle would be 12 movement squares wide.  At about 50m per movement square (pretty much the maximum scale, this gets worse if they are less than 50m per) that would be 600m. which would be 2-3 seconds of flight time to cross.  Remember that slowing down much made this relatively delicate aircraft much more vulnerable to fire.  Something "slow" like a P-47 would take 3-4 seconds to fly across the board the long way.

 

"Real" aircraft, be they prop or jet tend to act more like off board artillery that at the scale of Dust.

 

Real life military range and scale considerations are totally irrelevant for DT rules as long as the rules are full of action and fun. DT is just a tactical game with military flavor and great minis, nothing more. If I would like to have a military simulation I would play … (insert any of those cumbersome WW2 tabletop rulesets out there).



#9 Panzer soldier

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 05:22 PM

I am going to take the middle ground here. First I agree Dust is a game not a battle simulation, so ground scale is not so much of a factor.

Second the M.E. 262 was fielded as a interceptor. It was never fielded as a groung support aircraft.

In 1945, the last year of the war Gemany was useing the Folkerwolf 190 in this role. The F.W. 190 is a prop aircraft and thierfor slower than M.E. 262.

The slow speed is an advantage in the ground support role. It allows the aircraft to spend more time in the target zone.

So in conclution I think the F.W 190 is the plane I would use.



#10 asbestos

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 01:24 PM

 Right now what I'm worried about is more anti-air options for the Allies than for air options for either the Axis or Allies.

 

The Axis currently has some powerful AA options, the Allies… not so much. I now the upcoming Rattler medium walker is supposed to be an AA unit, but looking at what is out now, the Axis has a serious advantage in this area. It makes we worry that the SSU might be able to use their helicopters to curbstomp the Allies.



#11 Panzer soldier

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 05:28 PM

The wild fire is a good AA piece. It's range is 6 wich is the max range to engage aircraft by the new rules. The cost of a chopper is most likely allot more than 24 points. So I think if you invest in a couple you should be good.

I am with you though, it seems like all chopper armies are a real possability. I'm an Axis player and this possibility has given me poss for thought.

 



#12 DoctorGloom

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 05:00 PM

Why are we even worried about real life aircraft in a game with walking battle tanks, lasers, and military gorillas?  Just about anything that stays airborne and fits a mid-century aesthetic can follow the aircraft rules and get away with it.  Helicopters are a good real-world solution to our combat scale, but think about the other possibilities.

Slap more machinery onto a Grim Reaper to keep'im flying and you've got a level 1 aircraft.

The alleged alien crash in Roswell, New Mexico occurred in 1947.  Here come the Allies' hobbled together flying imitations, complete with death rays!

Hell, even though it's just a guy on a rig firing a sub-machine gun, the hover sleds from Metal Gear Solid 3 could be considered aircraft.  Incredibly flawed aircraft which are probably more of a hazard to their pilots than to any targets on the ground, but they fit the general military sci-fi feel.






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