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Minstrel Not Fighting, but Can't Pick Up Items


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#1 Osbo25

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 01:32 AM

The Talisman FAQ states:

Q: The Minstrel draws a Dragon and an Object in the Ruins.  If the Minstrel does not attack the Dragon, does it count as evading so he can take the Object?
A: No.  Choosing not to attack an Animal or Dragon does not count as evading.  If there are any Enemies on the space and the character did not kill or evade them all, then he may not take any Objects on the space.

How is it that the Minstrel may not pick up the item?  His special ability is that he may choose to fight or not to fight Animals and Dragons.  If he chooses not to fight them that is how he chooses to encounter them.  No, it is not an evasion.  But it is still an encounter, as his encounter is the choice not to fight because he doesn't have to.  He should then be free to take any items on the space.



#2 Fogity

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 02:45 AM

Yeah, I would probably say that he is evading the animal or dragon by using his ability, it is pretty logical. But obviously those are not the official rules. You can always make that a house rule though. ;)



#3 talismanamsilat

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 03:58 AM

'Animals and Dragons will not attack you, although you may choose to attack them.'

If a Dragon is guarding an Object, the Minstrel must either fight the Dragon or evade it to be able to take the Object. Simply put, a Dragon will not attack the Minstrel if he encounters one. However if the Minstrel wishes to encounter any other cards in a space (Strangers, Objects, Places, etc.), he must either attack and defeat the Dragon or evade it to be able to claim any Objects there or visit any Places etc.!

Ell.



#4 Osbo25

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 05:07 AM

talismanamsilat said:

'Animals and Dragons will not attack you, although you may choose to attack them.'

If a Dragon is guarding an Object, the Minstrel must either fight the Dragon or evade it to be able to take the Object. Simply put, a Dragon will not attack the Minstrel if he encounters one. However if the Minstrel wishes to encounter any other cards in a space (Strangers, Objects, Places, etc.), he must either attack and defeat the Dragon or evade it to be able to claim any Objects there or visit any Places etc.!

Ell.

I understand the concept.  I don't understand the rationale.  Again, the Minstrel encounters the Dragon by not attacking it and by it not attacking him.  That is his special ability.  Therefore, the encounter of not attacking being complete, he then encounters what else is there.

This will certainly be the house rule in my games.  :)



#5 talismanamsilat

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:18 AM

Osbo25 said:

 

talismanamsilat said:

 

'Animals and Dragons will not attack you, although you may choose to attack them.'

If a Dragon is guarding an Object, the Minstrel must either fight the Dragon or evade it to be able to take the Object. Simply put, a Dragon will not attack the Minstrel if he encounters one. However if the Minstrel wishes to encounter any other cards in a space (Strangers, Objects, Places, etc.), he must either attack and defeat the Dragon or evade it to be able to claim any Objects there or visit any Places etc.!

Ell.

 

 

I understand the concept.  I don't understand the rationale.  Again, the Minstrel encounters the Dragon by not attacking it and by it not attacking him.  That is his special ability.  Therefore, the encounter of not attacking being complete, he then encounters what else is there.

This will certainly be the house rule in my games.  :)

 

 

Correct in so far as the Dragon will not attack the Minstrel. However the Minstrel has to decide whether or not to attack the Dragon to get any treasure protected by it (the Dragon will defend itself).

In other words, if the Minstrel chooses not to attack the Dragon he basically goes nowhere near the Dragon and the treasure and his turn ends.

Of course play it how you see fit, even though I think it is very logical according to the rules of the game.

The rationale behind this special ability was discussed at length during the design process!

Ell.



#6 Osbo25

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:35 AM

talismanamsilat said:

Correct in so far as the Dragon will not attack the Minstrel. However the Minstrel has to decide whether or not to attack the Dragon to get any treasure protected by it (the Dragon will defend itself).

In other words, if the Minstrel chooses not to attack the Dragon he basically goes nowhere near the Dragon and the treasure and his turn ends.

Of course play it how you see fit, even though I think it is very logical according to the rules of the game.

The rationale behind this special ability was discussed at length during the design process!

Ell.

Thanks for the explanation, but I still don't buy it.

The concept of "protecting treasure" is not mentioned anywhere in the rules or explanation of game play (or if it is I completely missed it).  Everything has its encounter number, but each thing is encountered independent of anything else (excepting, of course, if they have the same encounter number).

The Minstrel encounters the Dragon by not fighting it, as per his special ability.  Nowhere does it say that the Dragon is guarding whatever object might also be there.  That is a foreign concept, at least as far as the written rules of the game are concerned.  And so after not fighting the Dragon, which has nothing to do with the object that might be there, he then proceeds to take the object.



#7 talismanamsilat

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:06 AM

Osbo25 said:

 

talismanamsilat said:

Correct in so far as the Dragon will not attack the Minstrel. However the Minstrel has to decide whether or not to attack the Dragon to get any treasure protected by it (the Dragon will defend itself).

 

In other words, if the Minstrel chooses not to attack the Dragon he basically goes nowhere near the Dragon and the treasure and his turn ends.

Of course play it how you see fit, even though I think it is very logical according to the rules of the game.

The rationale behind this special ability was discussed at length during the design process!

Ell.

 

 

Thanks for the explanation, but I still don't buy it.

The concept of "protecting treasure" is not mentioned anywhere in the rules or explanation of game play (or if it is I completely missed it).  Everything has its encounter number, but each thing is encountered independent of anything else (excepting, of course, if they have the same encounter number).

The Minstrel encounters the Dragon by not fighting it, as per his special ability.  Nowhere does it say that the Dragon is guarding whatever object might also be there.  That is a foreign concept, at least as far as the written rules of the game are concerned.  And so after not fighting the Dragon, which has nothing to do with the object that might be there, he then proceeds to take the object.

 

 

'After any Enemies in the space are killed (see “Resolving Battles vs. Creatures” on page 10) or evaded (see “Evading” on page 14), any Stranger or Place there must be visited and any gold, Objects, and Followers may be taken.' - page 9 of the main rulebook which Jon and myself helped compile!

The Minstrel does neither of these if he implements his ability not to attack a Dragon.

I tried to give you an idea of why the Minstrel does not get to encounter Objects!

Ell.






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