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Frak Dem Haters


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#1 DM Variyn

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 04:06 AM

I just wanted to make this section so that individuals could post positive thoughts and feeling for Fantasy Flight Games to see, about the up coming Box Office Buster... Only War!

So Fantasy Flight Games knows that there is a large group of interested players and fan looking forward to this game. For anyone that could possibly not understand why there should be an Imperial Guard RPG. Walk your candy tail to your local book store and find the Imperial Guard Omnibus: Volume 1... Flip to the Foreword written by Dan Abnett himself. After reading that, if your not sold on this game and the fact the the Imperial Guard is one of the best parts of Warhammer 40k. Well then, your a Hater.



#2 beowulf101

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 04:45 AM

 I don't think I've read many comments that would suggest anyone would hate to play a game about the Imperial Guard - more that the fluff will be copied and pasted across (again), that the core rules will be pasted across (again) and that in order to play and get into this element of the setting some of us will have had to have bought this game system for a fifth time over. No one is knocking the writers, the effort or the Imperial Guard content, just the business model that at 400 pages per book, the core rule sets now cover 2000 pages over five books. 

Saying that this takes the piss out of the buying customers doesn't make anyone a hater of the system or the setting, there's a clear and separate set of issues going on. 



#3 beowulf101

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 04:49 AM

 I will add that I am sold on the idea of playing as an imperial guardsman - it just doesn't need another 400 pages, the amount of reprinting of previous materials from other books and another investment of $60 / £40. 

 



#4 Psion

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 06:13 AM

I like the Guard, they're tied evenly with the Tau as my favorite army/faction in the Dawn of War games, but what you've posted is the kind of fanboy prattle I'd expect on the Deathwatch Forums, not here.  I have (wisely) not purchased every last 40k RPG book that has come out but I can understand the complaints from the people who are saying "Not another damn core book."  I don't know if this is FFG or GW's idea but the 40k RPG line seems to be drifting into book bloat territory, which is never a good development.  Will I pick it up?  Perhaps, though I'm going to wait and see first.



#5 DM Variyn

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 06:52 AM

beowulf101 said:

I don't think I've read many comments that would suggest anyone would hate to play a game about the Imperial Guard - more that the fluff will be copied and pasted across (again), that the core rules will be pasted across (again) and that in order to play and get into this element of the setting some of us will have had to have bought this game system for a fifth time over. No one is knocking the writers, the effort or the Imperial Guard content, just the business model that at 400 pages per book, the core rule sets now cover 2000 pages over five books.

Saying that this takes the piss out of the buying customers doesn't make anyone a hater of the system or the setting, there's a clear and separate set of issues going on.

Each book is not all part of the same system, instead they are all play alone systems. However, they have similar aspects that can be adjusted to allow them to work together somewhat. If you don't believe me just look at the Psyker sections in the books.  Customers that buy every book may be upset that parts of the core rulebook for each setting are the same but that is just part of producing a product that can be bought and played if just once product is purchased. If your Roleplaying Group just wants to play Only War they shouldn't have to buy RT and DH too. However, if they do it may increase their overall enjoyment by adding Voidship Skirmishes and Investigation Endeavors.

In actuality by splitting the books up and adding all the information you need in each book, for individuals that only will buy one book the cost is cheaper. It is not until you buy all of them that it is a lot of money. THOUGH your buying several games so it makes sense to cost a lot. Btw, as expensive as Warhammer Tabletop is I am confused that anyone that is interested in Warhammer is complaining about $50 dollars. In all the truth is they are trying to save money for individuals that are only interested in parts of the Warhammer 40k setting.

Psion said:

I like the Guard, they're tied evenly with the Tau as my favorite army/faction in the Dawn of War games, but what you've posted is the kind of fanboy prattle I'd expect on the Deathwatch Forums, not here.  I have (wisely) not purchased every last 40k RPG book that has come out but I can understand the complaints from the people who are saying "Not another damn core book."  I don't know if this is FFG or GW's idea but the 40k RPG line seems to be drifting into book bloat territory, which is never a good development.  Will I pick it up?  Perhaps, though I'm going to wait and see first.

Lol! By no means am I a Space Marines fanboy. Though if calling it as I see it puts me in that group, I just gained some respect for them. To the point as I said above its not another core rulebook for any of the other Fantasy Flight publications. It is a game and system on itself. You, just like many people screaming fowl also say they haven't bought all the books. So if you bought Only War and it was connected to Death Watch you may be pissed to have to buy that book too even though you don't like that type of playing. Wouldn't you and everyone else complaining be please to know that when they buy Only War they can play with it right after purchase? Fantasy Flight would love for you to buy everything they ever produce but they don't expect that. Thus, they make sure the games they sell can be played stand alone. 

Now I enjoyed DH but the stuff they made after like RT and now OW are more down my alley of play. I know people that are wet just thinking about Deathwatch but by no means is that my cup of tea. So I may see it from a different point than some of yall are willing to. But I hope if you step back and look at how they are trying to market the RPG Books they have, you will be more understanding and happy with how it is being done. I hope that they do produce more supplement books for the other systems. I think if they did they would have more interest in them. They have done great work with DH putting a lot of extra books in it, but that forces new groups to make substanial investments to make sure they have all able material. Some groups may be happier with a new setting with less books. So I expect even after Only War has 3 or 4 extra supplement material books that Fantasy Flight with already have another or more RPGs coming out.



#6 Bassemandrh

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 07:49 AM

You don't have to buy every DH book to play DH, you can do just fine with the core rules and the book(s) you find interesting.

However, playing a military campaign in DH would have been easy to do if Only War had been a supplement for DH as it was originally. FFG changed their mind about this and we can only speculate why they did so.

And i think you're wrong about their reasons, but as i just said we can only speculate.



#7 Catachan

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 09:10 AM

Bassemandrh said:

You don't have to buy every DH book to play DH, you can do just fine with the core rules and the book(s) you find interesting.

However, playing a military campaign in DH would have been easy to do if Only War had been a supplement for DH as it was originally. FFG changed their mind about this and we can only speculate why they did so.

And i think you're wrong about their reasons, but as i just said we can only speculate.

Why do all the complaining people always assume that every one already owns DH, or any of teh other 40k RPGs?

I for one don't want an IG RPG associated with DH, RT, BC, or DW. I do not want to play a war setting RPG as an add on to another system that has nothing to do with the subject matter.   The complaints could be stemming from a lack of knowledge of what the Imperial Guard is, as in the subject matter OW will be focusing on.

I think FFG made a very good decision seperating OW from the other systems, and I will support them by purchasing OW when it hits the stores.

 



#8 The_Shaman

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 12:43 AM

Dark heresy is the first system that came, thus the most well-known one. Also, Only War was initially supposed to be a DH splatbook (like Blood of Martyrs is for the Ecclesiarchy or Book of Judgement for the Arbites) , so a lot of people are comparing OW as a standalone to what it would have been as a DH supplement. Personally, the way the game is structured would also work towards it being a DW supplement, since DW is also combat-oriented, but eh.

Anyway, as for the system, the system is just mechanics. Using skills, shooting lasguns, taking cover - that is what the system does, so whether it's Dark Heresy, some variant of D20  or, heck, World of Darkness: 40K needn't have any impact on the subject and the stories. And if lack of knowledge is the problem - supplement books do that just fine, so there was no need to make a standalone game. Dark Heresy, for example, has about 100 pages of actual fluff (mostly in Chapters 9 through 11); the rest is stats and rules. Disciples of the Dark gods is 250 pages, and has much more information. A core book is not the way to go if you just want knowledge, since the corebook must have room for the crunch - you know, the actual system.

For me, the most valid reason why OW would be released standalone is that some people in FFG are a disappointed with the DH rules and want to tweak them more than a supplemental book allows, which would be a valid reason... but they could just release a Revised edition of DH before that and fix the rules for everyone, not just guardsmen. Meh.

So ok, you like OW as a concept and execution, great. I don't like what they did, so I won't buy it. That doesn't make me a "hater", I just don't care all that much about the book, or the IG for that matter, and was more interested in using concepts from the book to improve my Dark Heresy game. Mild disappointment isn't hate.


#9 The_Shaman

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 12:50 AM

Sorry about the above post, as I tried to edit it the format went all wrong.






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