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Ki Summoners


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#1 rickayelm

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 06:21 PM

I am considering making a Ki summoner in the next game I am in and have a couple of questions about them.

 

1.Does a Ki Summoner start with any blood pacts, or do they have to get them all in game?

2.Some of the creatures require multiple seals of the same sort to summon. For example the Ashigiri require five lesser wood seals. Do you just have to pay the MK for the seal once then invoke it multiple times, or are there multiple versions of the same seal that you have to learn?



#2 ElricOfMelnibone

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 06:56 PM

 A) Master's discretion. I would probably base the number of already bond creatures on the character's Occult characteristic (since one cannot make a pact with things he doesn't know the existence of...). I would definitely require a ki summoner to have a high Occult value.

B) When multiple copies of a single seal are required to summon a creature, you have to master once the seal (spend the MK), but when performing the summoning ritual, you just have to spend multiple times the ki required to use that seal. The rest is fluff.



#3 AlphaWhelp

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 04:38 AM

Elric is correct.

You only pay MK for the seal once.  Once for the lesser and once for the greater.



#4 rickayelm

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 07:56 PM

Thanks for the info. Do you have any advice on what advantages a Ki Summoner should take? Rigth now I'm thinking of taking see supernatural, the one that allows you to accumulate ki for the seals without taking hand signs, and increased martial knowlege. I have also bean thinking about taking elan, I figure it might help with the pact negotiations with some entities.



#5 AlphaWhelp

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 06:55 AM

Masterful Seals is more important than No Gestures.



#6 rickayelm

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 07:12 AM

We are using the unrestricted advantages option, so I was going to give up one of my attribute increases and take masterful seals on second or fourth level. I won't have any major seals until then so I won't be summoning any high level entities at first level.



#7 brewmaster_vitty

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 08:10 AM

 any advantage that allows you to more efficiently accumulate ki is good, i can't recall the names but one lets you accumulate at full even if you do other active actions in a round and another lets you accumulate faster when you stop and concentrate. i took both of these for my ki summoner.



#8 AlphaWhelp

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 05:36 AM

brewmaster_vitty said:

 any advantage that allows you to more efficiently accumulate ki is good, i can't recall the names but one lets you accumulate at full even if you do other active actions in a round and another lets you accumulate faster when you stop and concentrate. i took both of these for my ki summoner.

You can't take both of them, they specifically say they can't be combined with each other.



#9 F3nr1s

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 06:28 AM

You can take both, but you can't combine the benefits.

So for example, if you accumulation without a action, you can "use" the "increased ki accumulation", to get the +1/2 to all your accumulations. If you make an action, you can "use" the "total accumulation" to get your normal accumulation.

The "Limits" under "increased ki accumulation" only means, that you can't make following: Make an action, "use" "total accumulation" to get your full accumulation and then "use" "increased ki accumulation" to get +1/2 on your full accumulation (which you have because of "total accumulation").



#10 brewmaster_vitty

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 08:43 AM

yeah, what he said. taking both isn't an issue, they just only apply during different situations; you have to stop and concentrate to use increased accumulation and if you are stopping and doing nothing your accumulation isn't being reduced anyway so total accumulation doesn't even come into play.

did i just sound like captain obvious there, i'm really out of it right now, feel free to ignore this post.



#11 rickayelm

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 08:40 PM

Another question. It is usally not a good idea for a technition to lower their combat abilities for more ki because they have to use that ki to raise their abilities back up to what they should have bean in the first place. But in the case of a ki summoner it might be worthwhile. Sense your summoned allies will be fighting for you is it a good idea to lower your initial combat abilities in return for a higher accumulation?



#12 brewmaster_vitty

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 10:11 PM

i dunno, that sounds good in theory i guess, but you will only need so much accumulation for even the most powerful of creatures and that may leave you with extra dp or accumulation you don't really need. so i would say if you are going that route to either focus on doing one thing in combat well or having ki techniques for when you need to fight.



#13 Lia Valenth

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 09:52 AM

One option would be to keep your Defense at max and have no attack (so you spend 25% on defense and 35% on Ki/MK). That way you can defend yourself but your summons do all the fighting. Further, should you need to, the Predetermined Attack Ki Technique is extremely useful for this type of character (the Predetermined Defense is much less so…)



#14 F3nr1s

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 10:25 AM

 The max. difference between attack and defense can only be 50 points. So you can't have no attack and a high defense. If your difference reaches 50 you could, for example, spend 12,5% on attack, 12,5% on defense an 35% on Ki/MK (so, for example on every even level 13% on attack and 12% on defense and every odd level vice versa).

So long,



#15 Lia Valenth

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 11:43 AM

F3nr1s said:

 

 The max. difference between attack and defense can only be 50 points. So you can't have no attack and a high defense. If your difference reaches 50 you could, for example, spend 12,5% on attack, 12,5% on defense an 35% on Ki/MK (so, for example on every even level 13% on attack and 12% on defense and every odd level vice versa).

 

 

This is normally true, but there is an addendum on page 13, 4th paragraph under Limits on Offensive and Defensive Abilities, "A character may want to increase only his Attack or Defence ability, but not both…In this situation the character can only spend half of the total points he is allowed on Attack and Defence (that is, one quarter of his DP total), but he can ignore the rule that requires him to have a difference of no more than 50 points between his Attack and Defence."

The examples given are a Thief that only knows Dodge or an archer that only knows Attack. This rule also allows a Mentalist/Wizard/Summoner to have a decent Dodge score without having to pay for Attack.



#16 rickayelm

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 08:48 AM

Well the highest level of summoning requires four greater seals each of which neads 15 ki to use, so this requires you to acculmulate 60 ki. Even a mid level being, level five, requires 6 minor seals which each use 5 ki, so you have to accumulate 30 ki. As such if a mid to high level summoner wants to use their summons in any reasonable amount of time they are going to have to buy a significant amount of accumulation.



#17 AlphaWhelp

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 10:11 AM

remember 1 greater seal = 5 minor seal, so if level 5 monster require 6 fire seal, is possible to use 1 greater and 1 minor fire seal for 20 ki to summon the level 5 being instead.

 

hehe I said "fire seal"



#18 Raybras

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 05:16 PM

AlphaWhelp said:

hehe I said "fire seal"

i dont get it.

 

in other words, if you want an example character who has no attack score, visit here



#19 rickayelm

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 08:51 PM

Oh, I'm not thinking of haveing no attack score. I was just considering reducing my points in combat abilities. I was thinking 240 at first level so I could buy six ki accumulation, then 40 per level +1 accumulation, +10ki.

 

So at first level it would be:

120 attack=60+dex modifier

120 block=60+dex modifier

60 accumulation=+6 accumulation

20 Tae kwon Doe, gives me an extra attack plus I can fight unarmed if I have to.

30 MK=1 additional minor seal

10 KI

 

After that I would gain 10 attack and 10 defense per level along with 1 accumulation and 10 KI.

 

This would allow me to summon faster and keap my summons out longer while retaining a decent amount of personal combat ability.



#20 Lia Valenth

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 02:55 AM

rickayelm said:

 

Oh, I'm not thinking of haveing no attack score. I was just considering reducing my points in combat abilities. I was thinking 240 at first level so I could buy six ki accumulation, then 40 per level +1 accumulation, +10ki.

 

 

At low levels this will work very well. If you get to high levels the difference will be very notable At high levels you will not really be all that effective (and by high levels I mean 9+, as you would then have 35 less attack and defence than max), but as that most campaigns do not get that far it shouldn't be a problem.






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