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Newbie Question: Defense Ability


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#1 Darthsylver

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 08:28 AM

Can anybody explain to me if the references to the "Defense Ability" is combining the Block ability and the Dodge ability to achieve the "Defense Score" or is this meant to be referenced separately?

For instance the "Melkaiah" martial has a prerequisite of "more than 160 in both Attack and Defense (Unarmed), and Shephon has a prerequisite of  "Mastery of Defense (Unarmed)."

I presume they mean a final ability 160 in either Block or Dodge for Melkaiah and a final ability 200 in either Block or Dodge.

 

 



#2 Raybras

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 08:34 AM

 That is correct. One or the other is considered defense score. 



#3 Lia Valenth

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 12:47 PM

Darthsylver said:

Can anybody explain to me if the references to the "Defense Ability" is combining the Block ability and the Dodge ability to achieve the "Defense Score" or is this meant to be referenced separately?

 

You do not combine them you choose one. Specifically your highest (as that you can really only learn one and they default to each other at -60) so if a Martial Art requires Mastery in Defence then Mastery in either Block or Dodge qualifies.



#4 Darthsylver

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 02:41 AM

Ok, then I take it that on page 13 in the section labeled "Limits on Offensive and Defensive abilities" when it states "It is not possible to have a difference greater that 50 between an individual's Base Attack and Defense," that this is also referring to either Block or Dodge and not both.



#5 Raybras

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 04:32 AM

 That is correct. As long as One of your 2 defense final score is within 50 of your attack its good. 



#6 Chaoswarlord

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 08:46 AM

 Wow, that's a point that could have been a little better described in the book, but at least it will make my players happy. :)

 

I'm a new GM to Anima, with all new players, who just made up their characters. Looks like we have some adjustments to make. 

 

Thanks,

 

CW:)



#7 Chaoswarlord

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 09:01 AM

 Based on that you only need to have one defense within 50 points, I have a question though. 

 

I know there are reasons when block can't be used, such as against energy/touch based attacks or area of effect attacks. Is there any such restrictions to dodge? I thought it might be that wearing armor reduces your dodge defense, but it doesn't seem to. So, why would you ever choose to build up your block instead of your dodge, unless you just get some nice bonus to your block defense based on your class, etc.?

 

Thanks,

 

CW:)



#8 AlphaWhelp

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 09:16 AM

Chaoswarlord said:

 Based on that you only need to have one defense within 50 points, I have a question though. 

 

I know there are reasons when block can't be used, such as against energy/touch based attacks or area of effect attacks. Is there any such restrictions to dodge? I thought it might be that wearing armor reduces your dodge defense, but it doesn't seem to. So, why would you ever choose to build up your block instead of your dodge, unless you just get some nice bonus to your block defense based on your class, etc.?

 

Thanks,

 

CW:)

 

Actually the ability to touch energy, as with presence extrusion/aura extension allows you to block energy attacks.  Blocking Area Attacks is possible without presence extrusion at a -120 penalty (pg 93), however, if you have it you no longer suffer the penalty, even if you don't, you will still want to block an area attack if you are a block-focused character rather than using dodge at -60 because dodge suffers a further penalty of -80 if you are unable to escape the blast radius.  Though, I'm not seeing anywhere that says you can't use block against touch based attacks, I am not sure where you got that idea.  A touch-based attack must successfully hit and get at least a 10% damage result to take effect just like everything else that triggers resistance.

 

Anyway, the main advantage of Block over Dodge is, as I've stated above, the ability to block area attacks without penalty provided you have Presence Extrusion or Aura Extension.  Another advantage of Block is equipment bonuses, not only do shields give a bonus to block, but the quality of the blocking weapon or shield adds to block as well, while nothing adds to dodge.  Furthermore, certain style modules make blocking superior to dodging, such as two-weapon defensive style, and defense from projectiles module.  once again, most of this assumes you can stop energy via Aura Extension, but it's such a cheap and easy ability to get, even Weaponmasters should have it.



#9 Chaoswarlord

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 09:19 AM

 Excellent. Thanks for the quick response AlphaWhelp!  I'll do a little more research on this. 

 

CW :)



#10 AlphaWhelp

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 09:32 AM

Chaoswarlord said:

 Excellent. Thanks for the quick response AlphaWhelp!  I'll do a little more research on this. 

 

CW :)

as a further point of clarification, aura extension is not the only way to be able to block energy, having any kind of energy damaging weapon is good enough, such as with the level 60-70 free access spell Magical Weapon (pg 170) would work just as well as a regular weapon + aura extension, and comes with a free +10 quality to boot.

 

there are lots of different ways to get this ability, it's absurdly common and very essential for anyone who can fight to be able to do this by level 2 at the absolute latest.



#11 Chaoswarlord

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 09:55 AM

AlphaWhelp said:

Actually the ability to touch energy, as with presence extrusion/aura extension allows you to block energy attacks.  Blocking Area Attacks is possible without presence extrusion at a -120 penalty (pg 93), however, if you have it you no longer suffer the penalty, even if you don't, you will still want to block an area attack if you are a block-focused character rather than using dodge at -60 because dodge suffers a further penalty of -80 if you are unable to escape the blast radius.  Though, I'm not seeing anywhere that says you can't use block against touch based attacks, I am not sure where you got that idea.  A touch-based attack must successfully hit and get at least a 10% damage result to take effect just like everything else that triggers resistance.

 

Anyway, the main advantage of Block over Dodge is, as I've stated above, the ability to block area attacks without penalty provided you have Presence Extrusion or Aura Extension.  Another advantage of Block is equipment bonuses, not only do shields give a bonus to block, but the quality of the blocking weapon or shield adds to block as well, while nothing adds to dodge.  Furthermore, certain style modules make blocking superior to dodging, such as two-weapon defensive style, and defense from projectiles module.  once again, most of this assumes you can stop energy via Aura Extension, but it's such a cheap and easy ability to get, even Weaponmasters should have it.

Sorry, maybe I'm being obtuse about this, but you state that it's better to block an area effect attack if you're block-focused because of the -60 to dodge and the additional -80 if you are unable to escape. (And thus a -140 compared to the -120 trying to block without one of the ki abilities).

 

Where does the -60 to dodge come from? Is that based on if they have a block ability 60 points higher than dodge, or something different? Is there something that makes certain classes block vs dodge focused, or just depending on where the player puts their points?

 

Thanks,

 

CW:)



#12 Raybras

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 10:04 AM

you can use the defense you arent focused in at -60 of your focused defense. say you have 150 block, you could dodge at 90 ability.



#13 Chaoswarlord

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 10:15 AM

Raybras said:

you can use the defense you arent focused in at -60 of your focused defense. say you have 150 block, you could dodge at 90 ability.

 

Thanks. Where did I miss that in the book? 

 

CW :)



#14 F3nr1s

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 11:03 AM

Chaoswarlord said:

Raybras said:

 

you can use the defense you arent focused in at -60 of your focused defense. say you have 150 block, you could dodge at 90 ability.

 

 

 

Thanks. Where did I miss that in the book? 

 

CW :)

Page 56 of the Corebook, Table 25, last entry. And under the table it describes this. Also, block and dodge are using different characteristics, so perhaps this will also change.

 

So long,



#15 artofpsycosis

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 10:20 AM

Where is it stated that you have to choose to focus in a defense ability? The only thing I saw was one pg 56 of the core book that says if some one has the block ability and tries to dodge they take a -60. But if you then have both abilities would you still take this negative? I have someone telling me there is a module to use both but they can not reference a page number or book.



#16 Beadle

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 10:59 AM

 It's not that you HAVE to choose; more that it's common sense to do so.  You only have a limited number of DP to spend on Combat Primaries, and even less on Attack and Defence.  If you spend on two styles of defence, you will get lower values in both.

To show you an example (using a Dex and Agility of 5, and no class bonuses for simplicity), by Level 7:

Just Block = Attack 150, Block 150, Dodge 90 (150 minus 60).

Block and Dodge = Attack 100, Block 100, Dodge 100

So if you go down the route of just one defence type, by Level 7 your Attack is 50 points higher, your Defence is USUALLY 50 points higher, and on the rare occasions where you NEED to use the other type, you're only 10 points worse off.  A level or two later, and you're better off in ALL circumstances.



#17 F3nr1s

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 11:03 AM

I don't remember, that somebody has said, that you must focus on one. And there is also no module for using both.

You could develop block and dodge, but it wouldn't be good. You would start to distribute your points to wide. If you would use all the points on only one defense ability, this ability would be better, than if you use it on two. And if you must use your "block" ability for "dodging": If your block is high enough, this -60 malus wouldn't be this bad.

For example, someone with inniate class boni an characteristic boni:

Level 1:

Attack 50, Dodge 50, Block 50 vs. Attack 75, Block 75 (or Attack 50, Block 100).

This 25 to 50 points is a huge difference AND it doesn't happend this often, that you must change your defense style, so the 75-60 = 15 for dodge, would be happening this often.

So long,






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