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#1 Jigsaw79

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 11:26 AM

 

Hello mates!

 

I am new to TOI and have a question.

I want to advance an at gun with a fresh VEHICLE. Is this possible or can I just move with a fresh SQUAD??

I know that somebody can help!

 

Greez



#2 Aussie_Digger

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 07:04 PM

Yes you can, the rules state:

An advance action may only be performed if there is a fresh friendly unit present in the same hex.

and using the language of ToI unit means - An individual vehicle or squad.

Although both units are fatigued and you can only advance into an adjascent hex.



#3 Grand Stone

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 10:00 PM

Was it updated in FoB, or is the rule the same in FoB as in DoF?

 

Anway, jes this is one of the things which many in the community want to change.



#4 Jigsaw79

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 10:46 AM

 

Ah ok, now I know what I want to know.

 

It is not so easy to understand all rules for german players, thanks for the answer.

 

Greez

 

 



#5 Aussie_Digger

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 01:12 PM

It is the same in both FotB and DotF, listed under Anti tank guns andthe tab that says advance. I would like to see this rule to only apply to sqauds and see an offical rule for transporting guns with trucks and halftracks (as they should beable to move more than 1 hex). I have my own house rule for this but I rather using offical rules as house rules can change scenarios too much sometime.

Dont worry jigsaw the way some of the rules are written its even hard for us english speaking players to understand (FAQ way long overdue FFG)



#6 KlausFritsch

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 01:16 AM

Aussie_Digger said:

(FAQ way long overdue FFG)

To be honest, at this point I would much prefer a comprehensive rewrite of the rules at this point.

We are working with 6 booklets, an obsolete FAQ and several player aids (and the scenario book). A new, even longer FAQ would not do much for relieving table congestion.

All rules need to be collected into a single volume. Units, specializations and terrain need to be printed on cards. Would be a good chance to integrate all errata and correct some of the more obvious nonsense in the rules, AND clear up unclear wording.

Why not make this a print-on-demand product?

Or sell it as a PDF-only expansion?



#7 Jigsaw79

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 10:27 AM

Hello, nice idea.

 

I like it when rules are printed on cards like in "Memoir 44".

 

Here it is easy with the rules. Just take the cards what you need for your scenario and play.

And it is easier to play with new players, because I hate to explain 50 pages in 10 minutes.

 



#8 Aussie_Digger

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 12:47 PM

KlausFritsch said:

Aussie_Digger said:

 

(FAQ way long overdue FFG)

 

 

To be honest, at this point I would much prefer a comprehensive rewrite of the rules at this point.

We are working with 6 booklets, an obsolete FAQ and several player aids (and the scenario book). A new, even longer FAQ would not do much for relieving table congestion.

All rules need to be collected into a single volume. Units, specializations and terrain need to be printed on cards. Would be a good chance to integrate all errata and correct some of the more obvious nonsense in the rules, AND clear up unclear wording.

Why not make this a print-on-demand product?

Or sell it as a PDF-only expansion?

 

That would be a good idea, but i would fear that they would only include this in a reprint of the new game. would be nice if they released all the vevised rules in a hard cover book and at the same time released a book of scenarios that used all the expansions released to date.



#9 Grand Stone

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 01:22 AM

Updating rules is far easier if

1) rules & models are sold seperatly

2) rules are sold as a simple book.

Cards are cumbersome and exepnsive to update. Cheap books are in my opinion far better.



#10 skepticon

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 03:59 PM

 good point, my buddy and I got TOI at the same time from different sources and his has a bit different cover art and is missing the introductory scenario booklet



#11 freddieyu

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 03:23 AM

 Thank goodness there are internet resources which you can download…



#12 VolksCamper

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 09:14 PM

A simple rule addition for Equipment would be to allow a carrier (truck or halftrack)  to limber (load also) 1 gun whenever an unfatigued squad in the same hex, is loaded by that carrier. Likewise, to unlimber the gun, requires 1 squad be unloaded from the carrier along with the gun, and that squad is placed in Opfire mode. The gun just unlimbered may only be used by that Opfire squad during the remainder of that turn. Any other squad, which was in the same hex when a gun and a squad were unloaded by carrier, may not operate the gun in that same turn. Only the squad unloading with the gun, may operate it, and only in Opfire mode. At the beginning of the next turn, any unfatigued squad in the same hex with the gun, may then operate the gun as normal. 

 

 



#13 the sapper

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 11:49 PM

 Limbering up and towing guns with trucks and half tracks is a really good idea. Using a vehicle to move a gun just one hex was a pretty pointless exersise. I think for the sake of realism that once unloaded that the gun (crew) should become fatigued rather than being able to open fire immediately.  Guns take time to set up unlike infantry who can open fire as soon as they deploy from a vehicle.



#14 VolksCamper

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 07:31 AM

Yes, that would be easiest to do. It gets a little confusing with the gun being called "equipment". Some guns like the 57 mm AT gun are lightweight enough that they could be operational quickly. Larger guns, like the 88 flak, definitely would take more time, so maybe there has to be a distinction between "light" and "heavy" guns.

I would be just as okay with a gun figure being its own unit, with its own base, and having 2 or 3 slots for infantry figures. Then the whole unit is transported and unloaded, and fatigued. Maybe the "light" gun unit would have just 2 infantry figures, while a "heavy" gun unit would have 3 infantry figures on the base, along with the gun. The "light" gun unit could be placed in OPfire mode when unloaded, while a "heavy" gun would be fatigued.

Maybe just keep the word "equipment" as a trait/icon to be added along with the vehicle and infantry icons on the reference sheets, to designate AT guns, and Artillery guns as a 3rd "type" of unit. Thus, all the units reference charts would have 3 columns, with attack values vs vehicle, infantry, and equipment trait units.

IMO, the gun with its own base works pretty good, and the armor value of the gun shield can count as cover for the total unit comprised of gun and infantry figures. Since the gun and infantry are considered as a single target, the gun is not so easily knocked out as in the regular TOI rule which allows the gun to be targeted separately from the crew manning it.

For purposes of determining Attack values, either there has to be added a 3rd column on the reference sheets for "equipment" trait units, or just classify AT guns and Artillery guns as an "infantry" trait unit, but let the armor value of the gun remain in place as a permanent "cover" value die roll modification.

 



#15 the sapper

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 12:57 AM

 Having AT guns with their own slots for figures is a really great idea but I think the expense of officially changing the rule books and component pieces would be too much for the game company.  It would be well worth experimenting with house rules and simple custom modifications though.  I'm toying with the idea of glueing squad bases to the gun pieces and dealing with them the same way as mortar and mg units.  This would certainly simplify the game mechanics around equipment units which I personally think are over complex, abstract and a little unrealistic.  Currently any infantry unit has the ability to use AT guns effectively, realistically operating these weapons required specialist skill and training.



#16 VolksCamper

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 01:06 PM

IMO,  there should just be a "Transport" action added to the available actions a player can use in his action phase.

I prefer that it be a function of the carrier (Truck or Halftrack) to expend mps to load or unload a squad and or AT gun. The Panzer Leader method works pretty well, which is the carrier can either  first move up to half its mps and then load a passenger, or can load a unit it began the turn in the same hex with, expending 1/2 the carriers mps to do so, and then move up to the remaining half of the carriers mp to another hex with passenger remaining load.

Possible Rule wording:

Transport action: A Carrier vehicle (Truck or Halftrack) may be given a Transport action. The carrier may either load or unload but not both in the same action. To load or unload a passenger, the carrier must begin the turn in the same hex with passenger unit, and must expend 1/2 the carriers movement points to execute the loading/unloading. Once loaded, the carrier may then move with passenger  loaded up to as far as the remaining 1/2 of the carriers movement (rounded up) allows.

Similarly, a carrier which begins the turn already loaded, could  unload the passenger in the same hex using 1/2 carriers mps, then move to another hex , or the carrier could move with passenger loaded, to another hex within range of 1/2 the carriers mps, then expend its remaining mps to unload the passenger. The carrier remains in the hex with the passenger if carrier moves first and then unloads passenger.

Optional rule: Tanks and SPGs can be given a transport action to load 1 infantry squad (no MG or Mortar) expending 1/2 mps to do so in accordance with Transport action rule above.

Transportation of Guns:

An AT gun, if beginning turn in same hex with a Regular/Elite/officer infantry squad (no MG or Mortar) , may be limbered to the carrier as a function of loading the squad using the Transport Action. Trucks may load 2 squads + 1 AT gun limbered, while Halftracks may load only 1 squad +1 AT gun limbered.

If AT gun and squad(s) begin turn already loaded on carrier, the carrier may move up to 1/2 its movement first then unload both squad and AT gun. AT gun and squad may then be placed in OP fire with a 2nd action., or may be fatigued without having to expend another action. The carrier upon unloading, is fatigued,and remains in same hex as unloaded passengers The carrier could also unload squad and AT gun in the hex it begins in, then carrier could move away. In either case, once AT gun and sqaud are unloaded, they must either be fatigued (no additional action requird) or be placed in OP fire mode using a 2nd action.. 

 






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