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#1 richsabre

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:37 PM

i have just got this and gave it a few quick play throughts, both with my dain/bifur/gloin dwarf deck and with a new deck with the twins and eowyn

i have to say it is incredibly easy, and sort of a 1 trick sort of quest that trick being the only real danger it can throw at you is sleeping sentry.

as long as you can get rid of it, either by cancellation or removing via out of the wild, then its easy going...there are no real other dangers

depsite this, i really like this quest, it has great art work, a decent theme, though i think it is still inferior to redhorn gate as there is no real complex themtic play

also my opinions on the lack of solo cards in this pack, i have found the useable cards very useable indeed. especially the sword


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#2 leptokurt

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 10:53 PM

I too think that RtR is a bit too easy, but it is fun to play. I guess the designers wanted this adventure to be a training ground to test the secrecy mechanic. Except of Goblin Spearman every enemy has a threat of >20. That's why the ambush keyowrd almost never triggers when you're playing with a secrecy deck. This could be a problem for multiplayer games when one player has a secrecy deck and the other plays with three heroes. The latter will be faced by all enemies with the ambush keyword and a threat between 20 and 35.

I also like the player cards, except of the two spirit cards who are for multiplayer only. Hail of Stones will be part of every deck that includes the tactics sphere. I consider this one to be one of the most useful non-core set cards published so far. Rivendell Blade is also great and will get better once there will be some Elven tactics allies. Bombur is a great help in every underground scenario. Dúnedain Wanderer and Out of the Wild are two good reasons to run a secrecy deck. And Lure to Moria is a card that makes Dwarven decks even stronger as they already are.



#3 starhawk77

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 11:27 PM

I agree that the difficulty is largely contingent on a couple key encounter cards. Sleeping Sentry is the most obvious one, but an ill-timed Orc Ambush can also ruin your day. If you have cancel effects ready, RtR usually isn't too tough.

If you don't, though (or if you let Crebain hang around), things can take a disastrous turn very quickly. Along with the aforementioned treacheries, there are plenty of shadow effects that damage allies. Just two of those and Arwen goes pop. Compared to The Redhorn Gate, the "escort" portion of RtR is much more difficult; Arwen is never in any real danger during TRG, but losing her is probably the most common way to fail RtR. All in all, RtR isn't the most challenging scenario out there, but it's still dangerous and complex enough to be quite fun.

The player cards rock. Song of Earendil changes the game. If your partner is playing a secrecy deck, you can essentially keep his or her threat below 20 indefinitely. Opens up a terrific array of deckbuilding possibilities.



#4 Glaurung

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 01:12 AM

Very bad quest im my opinion. I think they should to make another system of difficult in this game. Players should to have possability to increase or decrease difficult of the quest by they needing. For me this quest is a joke. My Glorfindel, Bilbo, Frodo deck can past it without any problem.From 6 games i lose 1 cose of the bad luck-draw. What they need include some powerful enemies with high threat level to prevent players progress quickly and put lot of enemies to the staging area to make a real big fight there. Maybe u should to include there some high threat level enemies from another decks and see what happen then.


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#5 leptokurt

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 11:29 AM

Glaurung said:

Very bad quest im my opinion. I think they should to make another system of difficult in this game. Players should to have possability to increase or decrease difficult of the quest by they needing. For me this quest is a joke. My Glorfindel, Bilbo, Frodo deck can past it without any problem.From 6 games i lose 1 cose of the bad luck-draw. What they need include some powerful enemies with high threat level to prevent players progress quickly and put lot of enemies to the staging area to make a real big fight there. Maybe u should to include there some high threat level enemies from another decks and see what happen then.

Or you could let Arwen do the washing instead of sending her to the quest . I already said this, but I think this quest is supposed to be a training ground for secrecy decks. You were right btw when you said that RtR is not a real test for secrecy decks. I tried mine against Into the Pit, and failed with every combination so far (Goblin Plunderer!), getting only one lucky win. Only now when i used three heroes again (Théodred, Frodo, Denethor) who make a half-assed secrecy deck I have some success (~ 50 percent win ratio).



#6 DurinIII

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 02:25 PM

 I love this quest, and yes, you guys are right, it is pretty easy.  Easy is precisely why I love this quest so much.  I feel the difficulty is scaled well to, let's say A Path Through Mirkwood which is difficulty 1.  I love the theme in RTR, the art, and the fact that the Questing Deck is so large!  This is one I can return to time and time again as a solo player and have a lot of fun with! :)



#7 richsabre

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 02:31 PM

in that regards yes, im pleased they are still brining out light heartedd ones like these for the less skilled / combo minded of us :D


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#8 gatharion

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 03:18 PM

 I had some difficulty with this quest with my dwarf deck, I'd either get hosed by Sleeping Sentry or bogged down by enemies. I beat it, but it took a few goes.

 

I had a much easier time of it with my Eowyn, Elrohir, Elladan deck. A Sleeping Sentry at in in-opportune time could still ruin my day, but otherwise it was pretty easy.



#9 leptokurt

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 09:07 AM

gatharion said:

 I had some difficulty with this quest with my dwarf deck, I'd either get hosed by Sleeping Sentry or bogged down by enemies. I beat it, but it took a few goes.

 

I had a much easier time of it with my Eowyn, Elrohir, Elladan deck. A Sleeping Sentry at in in-opportune time could still ruin my day, but otherwise it was pretty easy.

 

I also lost my first games, as I didn't build a specific deck but used my Redhorn fellowship. Man, I was frustrated. However, once I learned that this scenario has only a couple of cards to deeply hurt you, I won almost every single gmae. But it still is a fun one, and one can try out some decks and combos without landing in a trolls stomach.



#10 DurinIII

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 04:38 PM

Well said Leptokurt!  



#11 Dam

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 02:37 AM

Finally done with this quest forever. Pissed me off to no end.

After finishing the game today, thought about the quests so far and I think RtR is the only one you can actually lose during setup! 2+ player game needed, but 2x Undisturbed Bones = dead Arwen, good night. Just in case you have Eleanor, Crebain first, it surges into UB, then UB. That's how shitty this quest is, you can lose it during setup . You also have Followed by Night which either deals 1 dmg to all allies + surge or have all enemies engaged attack, can't recall the ruling on this card, but if no enemies engaged (which could be the case during setup barring Ambush), can you pick the attack option? If not, there are 6 cards in the deck and drawing any two would then kill Arwen.

Other quests certainly can put you in a hole there is almost no climbing out of during setup, but are there any possible, actual quest-endings during setup?


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#12 leptokurt

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 08:59 AM

Dam said:

 

Finally done with this quest forever. Pissed me off to no end.

After finishing the game today, thought about the quests so far and I think RtR is the only one you can actually lose during setup! 2+ player game needed, but 2x Undisturbed Bones = dead Arwen, good night. Just in case you have Eleanor, Crebain first, it surges into UB, then UB. That's how shitty this quest is, you can lose it during setup . You also have Followed by Night which either deals 1 dmg to all allies + surge or have all enemies engaged attack, can't recall the ruling on this card, but if no enemies engaged (which could be the case during setup barring Ambush), can you pick the attack option? If not, there are 6 cards in the deck and drawing any two would then kill Arwen.

Other quests certainly can put you in a hole there is almost no climbing out of during setup, but are there any possible, actual quest-endings during setup?

 

 

As you can choose one of the options, it's of course ok to choose the one that doesn't harm you. That's why I am always happy to see Followed by Night, as with my secrecy deck I almost never had an (living) enemy angaged with me.

Drawing 2 Undisturbed Bones during the setup is unlikely, Yes, it immediatly ends the quest, but other scenarios have cards that mean an invetitable end to your quest if you draw them (Attercop, Attercop, Ungoliant's Spawn, Sacked + Roasted, 4x Signs of Gollum + 4x Hunters from Mordor). And I didn't even talk about TWitW…



#13 Dam

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 09:50 AM

Regarding Followed by Night, can you choose the all enemies attack option regardless of whether you have enemies engaged (or even in play)?

None of the combos you mention finish off the quest during SETUP! I mean, seriously, how exactly did that crap get through "playtesting"? I can just imagine if there was tournament play, finale, one pair loses during setup, not sure they'd be all that pleased about it, especially since there is the possibility that they can't actually do anything about it (Crebain). Attercops are killable, snareable and survivable, ditto for Spawn. Discarded heroes from Sacked + Roasted can be brought back, either immediately or with Fortune. Signs might get shuffled back, Hunters can be snared (though this pairing is probably the toughest, since it can happen during setup also; but not a loss on setup). Wilyador took his sweet time to die, but for all her connections, Arwen has nothing to protect her from anything? Sheesh, spoiled princess ain't worth a dam(n), stay home weaving you stupid *****.


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#14 leptokurt

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 10:25 AM

Dam said:

Regarding Followed by Night, can you choose the all enemies attack option regardless of whether you have enemies engaged (or even in play)?

None of the combos you mention finish off the quest during SETUP! I mean, seriously, how exactly did that crap get through "playtesting"? I can just imagine if there was tournament play, finale, one pair loses during setup, not sure they'd be all that pleased about it, especially since there is the possibility that they can't actually do anything about it (Crebain). Attercops are killable, snareable and survivable, ditto for Spawn. Discarded heroes from Sacked + Roasted can be brought back, either immediately or with Fortune. Signs might get shuffled back, Hunters can be snared (though this pairing is probably the toughest, since it can happen during setup also; but not a loss on setup). Wilyador took his sweet time to die, but for all her connections, Arwen has nothing to protect her from anything? Sheesh, spoiled princess ain't worth a dam(n), stay home weaving you stupid *****.

Yes, you can choose. The card only says "choose one of the following", not "choose one of the follwoing, if able".

As to your second point: I just got killed by TWitW in round 1. Happens pretty often, and will happen even more if you have the wrong heroes. And there is nothing I can do as it is a forced effect that kills me. For me it makes no difference if I get killed during the setup or during round 1. It also makes no difference if the setup card destroys you at once or if it leads inevitably to a loss. The latter is even more painful.

However, I think you made a valid point about random cards in the setup making this game too unpredictable. Why do they allow us to mullgigan our hand but not the random setup card(s)?



#15 Dam

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 07:58 PM

leptokurt said:

 

Yes, you can choose. The card only says "choose one of the following", not "choose one of the follwoing, if able".

Too lazy to dig out the card and the database is down for maintenance, but FbN has "if able" at the end, I think it refers to the attack part.


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#16 starhawk77

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 10:20 PM

Dam said:

 

leptokurt said:

 

 

Yes, you can choose. The card only says "choose one of the following", not "choose one of the follwoing, if able".

 

 

Too lazy to dig out the card and the database is down for maintenance, but FbN has "if able" at the end, I think it refers to the attack part.

 

 

Yes, "all enemies engaged with players make an immediate attack, if able."

Here, though, the "if able" clause clearly refers to the enemies themselves and their ability to make attacks. It just means that a Forest Snared foe won't attack when Followed by Night is flipped. If there are no enemies in play, the players can choose to have "all" 0 enemies attack, just like they may choose to remove "all" 0 progress tokens due to Falling Stones in The Redhorn Gate. 

It's a restriction against the enemies; it doesn't restrict the choice made.



#17 leptokurt

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 10:25 PM

The text is:

"When Revealed: The first player (choose 1): deals 1 damage to all allies in play and Followed by Night gains surge, or all enemies engaged with players make an immediate attack, if able."

 

I think it is clear that you can choose, otherwise the "choose 1" bit makes no sense. The "if able" bit worries me a bit, to be honest. In German the card is worded like this: "The start player chooses one of the following: …" which implies that the player is always able to decide which of the two options he's going to choose.

 

Edit: crosspost!
 

 



#18 Dam

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 10:35 PM

No, I think the choice part is clear, it's the "if able" bit that also confuses me.


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#19 leptokurt

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 03:03 AM

Dam said:

No, I think the choice part is clear, it's the "if able" bit that also confuses me.

As starhawk said, there are enemies that are engaged with a player, but not able to attack. Right now only Forest Snare and Thicket of Spears prevent enemies from attacking, but there might come other cards with similar effects.



#20 Golden_Nightingale

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:14 PM

I don’t think Followed by Night is confusing. The “if, able” applies to enemies. If they are caught in a Forest Snare they can’t attack. If they are not engaged with any player then they can’t attack. If I recall, the enemies do not engage a player in order to make an attack.






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